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UFOs & Aliens

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Do aliens and UFOs exist? (Two choices which you can change.)

Aliens do exist (over 70% sure). (UFOs are manned and are not just robotic drones.)
1
11%
Aliens don't exist.
1
11%
I'm not sure about aliens.
1
11%
UFOs are alien-made (over 90% sure).
2
22%
UFOs are man-made.
2
22%
I'm not sure about UFOs.
2
22%
 
Total votes: 9

Brian-H
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

John-B wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:46 pm
I don't think all UFO sightings are by weirdos, some are by military people or the police or ordinary folk. All have had a shock and imagination has run riot.

However, why does the US try so hard to stop these stories? If UFOs cause no harm and aren't made by the US, why not let the stories go on? It implies that US special projects are behind many UFO sightings.
As a percentage at least, there must be as many weirdos in the military and police, as in the general population. In the US, I'd expect to find more weirdos than anywhere else on the planet.

As for the US trying hard to stop these stories, on the contrary, in the 50's the Roswell Incident was probably a hoax either instigated or certainly promoted by the USAF to make the Russians think that they had access to special weapons. In reverse, it turns out that the Russians only had 5 nuclear warheads in the 50s, yet they scared the US in thinking they had thousands. This is the point, the 50s and 60s were full of stories to scare the oppo.

Brian-H
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Location: Loughborough

Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

Sydsmith wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:28 pm
John, is it not a bit odd that most UFO sightings are of "craft" of the most unlikely flight design. "craft" that would never be constructed here on earth because they just would not work, or at least would be very inefficient. A flying saucer is just about the most impractical shape for a space craft you could think of. OK, you could fly it narrow side on to enter the atmosphere, but why would you make it that shape when there are far more practice shapes to use?

Of course we have to assume aliens are intelligent, if that is the case why would they make such an effort to land on earth in a craft so poorly designed for the purpose and then just fly away again?

We must also assume that as earth where man took millions of years to evolve, given there are millions of stars in the universe, there is a very good chance that other life forms also evolved and exist out there. But like us, those life forms need a reason for leaving their own home to visit earth. Why then do these aliens just drop in and fly away almost before any earthling can ascertain what they really look like or who they are.

We have been woken around 6 am every morning recently by a strange irregular knocking noise which has defeated all attempts to identify the source. This morning however I quietly opened the bathroom window to find two Jackdaws in a matting ritual stomping around on the lead work round our chimney. It wasn't aliens after all. Of course I am not a sceptic :D Syd
Spot on. If "they" can travel hundreds of light years in a few weeks (or months at most) then "they" must have such amazing technology that it seems strange that "they" can't just "materialise" on the surface of the planet (as in Star Trek).

Norfolk Lad
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Norfolk Lad »

IF they Fly here this week i hope they bring Toilet Rolls then fly off with all those who think they need them all after they rush in the door.

its a MAD MAD WORLD. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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John-B
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by John-B »

I'm certainly not sure that there are any aliens, but it is conceivable. Scientists have managed to transfer one molecule from one part of a lab instantaneously to another part of the lab through several layers of glass and we only have very simple technology compared with what aliens must have, so perhaps they can move instantly from one part of the universe to another. We are too simple to understand, but truth is stranger than fiction.

It is odd that alien reports were mainly between 1945 and 1985 when lots of nuclear bombs were being exploded which may have attracted them, if they exist!

Brian-H
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

Norfolk Lad wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:22 pm
IF they Fly here this week i hope they bring Toilet Rolls then fly off with all those who think they need them all after they rush in the door.

its a MAD MAD WORLD. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe it's aliens who bought the toilet rolls, possibly all leaving Earth to get away from the virus, and toilet rolls are used in their propulsion system

John-B wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:41 pm
I'm certainly not sure that there are any aliens, but it is conceivable. Scientists have managed to transfer one molecule from one part of a lab instantaneously to another part of the lab through several layers of glass and we only have very simple technology compared with what aliens must have, so perhaps they can move instantly from one part of the universe to another. We are too simple to understand, but truth is stranger than fiction.

It is odd that alien reports were mainly between 1945 and 1985 when lots of nuclear bombs were being exploded which may have attracted them, if they exist!
Well I think you've made the point in the last sentence - it was during that period when the Cold War was at its height, which is when both sides were trying to convince one another that they were ahead with the ultimate tech (remember Reagan's "Star Wars" ? ). Furthermore, with the advent of very portable video equipment, the fakers are no longer able to produce fakes (Roswell alien was an early VHS fake).

However, yes, I agree with your first paragraph above. If you look on youtube at 4-dimensional space simulations (4 true "geometric" dimensions) then that might be one possible explanation for many things that we have yet to explain. e.g. Newton's Laws are fine within our solar system, but when you go further and further out between Solar systems they may no longer work so well (it's only in 2013, approx 25 years after launch, that Voyager 1 passed into interstellar space). What goes on in the centre of our galaxy, or in the space between galaxies, could be even stranger.

There are also alternative theories that challenge Einstein's general relativity see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein% ... tan_theory and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternati ... relativity and there's also Hausdorff space to consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_space
Plus, although the speed of light may be a constant everywhere in our galaxy, there are theories that it has changed over time .

So yes, it may be possible to travel great distances in ways that we have yet to find out, but if so, surely a flying saucer would have no requirement to "fly" - it would just "materialise" on the surface (and you'd have to get the space-time co-ordinates bang-on to the mm and usec) , and then "de-materialise" when time to go.

KV8
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by KV8 »

When considering the probability of intelligent alien life people seem not to appreciate the sheer vastness of the Universe which is in the scale of billions of light years. Also people seem to forget the sheer time scale of the Universe which is even more billions of earth years. Alien cultures have possibly existed and been and gone, they may exist today but at a distance such that we may only receive their communications after the Earth ceases to exist. We have only been sending modulated radio waves into space for just over 100 years, 100 light years is an incredibly miniscule distance in terms of the size of the universe.
I agree that the speed of light is now peceived to be slow and is a limiting factor in communications and computing and other electronic functions.
H

Brian-H
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

10 pm yesterday evening, Blaze had "The secret military aircraft constructed by armed forces in America, South Africa, Russia, Australia and Canada that resemble flying saucers, and have caused a stir with the locals" https://www.tvguide.co.uk/detail/814297 ... /ufo-files

I watched quite a bit of it (mostly to avoid the News channels at that time) , it was a very interesting summary starting with the German stuff and going through the decades after. Some of it wasn't well thought out though, such as the Russians having sole access to the German Ho 229 prototype flying wing which the Russians supposedly built and flew at 1200 mph over the USA - circa 1950 . Somehow me thinks not, especially as it didn't appear in Korea or Vietnam (and if they had such fast tech how come they struggled to copy the wings used by Concorde).

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John-B
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by John-B »

One of the Blaze programmes said that the US had got anti-gravity vertical lift to work in 1954 but we haven't seen any evidence of it in US military or civilian aircraft. The F35 vertical and short take off fighter uses a jet engine which implies that all experiments with anti-gravity failed. Why go to the trouble of developing a jet aircraft if anti-gravity is available?

The Germans tried with "The Bell". The Avrocar which started life in Canada before being taken over by the US could hardly get off the ground and one version was still jet propelled. Both failed.

The reports of silent and fast flying saucers still needs to be explained. Since the reports don't state jet engines, the lift and propulsion must be something like electro-magnetic levitation which we can't duplicate. Even if the US have captured and repaired alien craft, the US hasn't been able to get them flying, so there is still a chance that these objects are alien.

Brian-H
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

For me, the problem with most of these stories are that they originate from the desperate things that the Germans were trying as the tide was turning in the war. Don't forget that in that era most areas of physics were very poorly understood. What the Germans were doing, with most of this stuff, was never going to get anywhere. Also, bearing in mind that the leadership believed in all sorts of occult nonsense, the science (what we would call pseudo-science today) was driven by the same lunacy. Going through a few of the things that they did, you can see how pointless most of it was.

1. Rocketry - the V1 was the better idea but it came too late, and although the V2 seems a good idea, in terms of economic cost, a heavy bomber like the Lancaster was far cheaper and reusable.
2. Heavy water - as it turns out (and unknown to everyone at the time) you can't use heavy water to make a nuclear weapon
3. Jet engines - yes, a good idea, but again, came too late. Even if they'd got it earlier in the war, we were not far behind
4. Radar - this was first discovered in Britain, but in a search for a "ray weapon" to destroy aircraft from a distance. The Germans just improved on what we started.
5. Anti-gravity - based on what we would call pseudo-science today
6. Magnetic levitation - as 5. (also, don't confuse magnetic with electro-magnetic, they are totally different. The latter refers to RF and light).

All of the above had origins in the 1930's , the Germans were just a bit further ahead, and the point is that most of the "science" on UFOs just continues to use the pseudo-science from the 1930s.

Finally, I do not believe any "eye witness" account. Decades ago, I remember a documentary (possibly an early Horizon) about UFO sightings from aircraft. It turns out that the glass used in all aircraft (civil or military) contains imperfections which, in certain situations, can cause things to appear as light is bent through the imperfections and into a lens (either camera or human eye). The fact that radar has supposedly seen something at the same time is just coincidental, because if a military pilot were to randomly ask a military radar operator if there is something nearby, the chances are low that they would see something on the radar. But the chances are not zero. So what you have is random effects on radar (usually not seen unless a request is made) and random effects on cameras or the human eye.

But as I say, it would be arrogant to 100% dismiss the possibility that there is some blindspot in our understanding of science today. Whilst our understanding today is far superior to that of the 30s/40s/50s/60/70s it is still not perfect. For example, on the subject of RF (of which I have a very good understanding having worked on mobile phone networks for several decades) I have never read a good description of how the electric and magnetic components of light and RF enable the emissions from very distant galaxies to reach us. Indeed, I do not believe that the speed of those emissions is constant throughout the entire universe, hence I have my doubts about the "big bang" theory.

Brian-H
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

The all look like something has stuck onto the lens of the camera ;)

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