Please visit the Club's website https://www.dloc.org.uk/ to join. Visit https://www.dloc.org.uk/adhoc to DONATE towards the cost of the forum.
Please don't post someone's email address to avoid it being harvested by spambots and it's against GDPR regulations.
Always look at "ACTIVE TOPICS" to see all posts in date & time order as they are sometimes moved; or look at "Your Posts".
Please add Reg. nrs. when posting a photo or anything about a car as this will help searches. Don't add punctuation next to nr. as this negates search.
CHANGED YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS since registering?, click your username and check your address in User Control Panel, Profile, Account Settings.
If you want help to register, use "contact us" at page bottom for help.

Insurance valuations

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
Warsash 2
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:53 pm
Location: Southampton

Insurance valuations

Post by Warsash 2 »

Hi
I have just received my multi car insurance quote. All my 4 cars require an insurance valuation. Upto £15,000 they accept self valuation with photographs. above that level they need valuations from club officials. I have looked on the Hagerty web site which has a valuation estimate for a large number of cars which is very easy to use. The site suggest both my V8 and of course Margaret's SP could be over the limit. Next weekend I will be going to a TSSC Southern Rally were I can get my GT6 valued on the spot.
It got me thinking that instead of wasting time on a car beauty pageant at the International it may be more useful to have a car valuation service at the event. It may be that the Registars could give a range of values once a year in the DM.
Regards
Colin

Phillmore
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Worcestershire Herefordshire border

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Phillmore »

I assume you are with Hagerty Colin? If you don't mind me asking what discount do they give for extra cars as I'm looking to change to a multi policy if the discount is good. I notice not all multi policies offer a discount!
Andy

1954 Conquest Mk1, 1956 Conquest Mk2, 1957 Conquest Century Mk2, 1955 Austin A90 Westminster

Sydsmith
Extremely Wise Man
Extremely Wise Man
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Sydsmith »

I am sure everyone is aware but in case anyone has missed this point, my apologies if I am teaching granny to suck eggs.

There is a big cost saving with multicar policies and for me they have worked fine for many years with some reservation, in that the saving is obviously made because the insurers rely on only two cars being on the road at any one time. Owner driver and spouse/partner or named second driver.

That was a problem when madam had a new knee, she could not drive her car for 8 weeks, it cost us almost £20 a day to name a driver when we needed one.

Just had my renewal notice on Friday and for my wife and I to drive a Mercedes ML250, Mercedes A class, a V8 250 agreed value £10,000 and a tatty SP250 agreed value £20,000 I am being asked for £725, they are quoting £75 extra for a 1937 Mulliner 15 agreed value £5,000, when I get it on the road.

simonp
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:59 am
Location: Birmingham

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by simonp »

I use Peter James and ask Ray Jensen to sign off the valuation and condition form. Ray has serviced and repaired my cars for over 20 years.

SimonP
Daimler SP 250 - "To feel its eager response as you open up is to know a new motoring adventure"(Sales brochure) The adventure continues!

Chris_R
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:48 pm
Location: Twickenham

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Chris_R »

Let's be clear about this. Multi-car insurance policies are good business for the insurer, that's why they do them. The more cars you have with them the harder it will be to switch away to a competitor.
Also, agreed value policies are a double-edged sword. They are good for the insurers for two reasons 1) it limits their liability on the payout on the car and 2) many owners do not re-value their cars annually and so the insurers liability is again capped. They are good for the insured because it gives peace of mind that in the event of a total loss there is a sum available without (or should be without) quibble. They are not so good for the insured if either the insured has under valued the car compared to the market or has not re-valued the car in line with market change (increase).
In some ways, insuring the car for "market value" could be better because whatever the current market value is will be the sum that would be paid out in the event of a total loss. Remember that the guiding principle of motor insurance is that in the event of a total loss the insurer must put you back into the same position you were in before the loss. That means that whatever settlement is made must enable you to replace your car with the exact same model and year and of commensurate condition. Insurers will always try to payout less but if you stick your ground on replacement values (and here you need to keep evidence to support any assertions) the insurance ombudsman is on your side and you will win. I know this because I've done it.
I have a first generation Range Rover which was damaged last year. Repairs estimated at £2,300. The insurance company initially wrote it off with a value of £1,300. The first generation Range Rovers are becoming sought after and values are increasing and supported by evidence I contested that and submitted a range of evidenced sale prices of an equal model and specification to replace my car if they wrote it off ranging from £5,000 to £7,200. I conceded that because of certain factors mine would probably be towards the lower of that range and that I would accept a settlement based on that. This approach and the arguments are supported by previous ombudsman rulings which I also quoted and the 3rd party's insurance company immediately conceded everything and settled based on a value of £5,000 and in addition to my claim offered me an additional £200 compensation for my inconvenience, realising that in all liklihood I would have done so!
Would agreed value have helped me on this? Perhaps, but only if I had set a high enough value. Incidentally, after the repairs and some other works, this Range Rover is now on agreed value of £11,000 at Admiral. Accepted with just photographs.
Colin doesn't say which insurer he is using but requiring club valuation for only £15,000 is a bit low. I also use Heritage Insurance and I think with them up to at least £40,000 can be self valued simply with supporting photographs. Hagerty I'm sure also will accept valuations based on the ratings in their tool. In fact, I've just quoted the Hagerty valuation tool values to Heritage (a competitor insurance provider!) in support of a newly increased agreed valuation, no quibbles, just a request for 6 photographs which can be sent by email.
As with all insurances, it pays to shop around. This is good business for the insurers to get, there are more than half a million pre-1985 historic cars in Britain plus a further 300,000 motorbikes and 125,000 commercial vehicles all requiring insurance. I'm sure you can do the maths and work out the value of this market segment.

Warsash 2
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:53 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Warsash 2 »

I am with Peter James and have no issues with them. I have 6 cars insured including the relatively modern Celica and a Jaguar XJ super V8. The increases all appear to be due to rises in Tax. My real point is would it be better for the membership as a whole if at the International and selected other meetings the clue offered a valuation service instead of the current focus on the beauty parade.
Regards
Colin

Phillmore
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Worcestershire Herefordshire border

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Phillmore »

My point is that not all multi car policies offer discounts. I have mine all individually insured with the same company (Lancaster). When asked they said I could put them all on one classic multi car policy but there would be no discount. They said the advantage for me was that they were all together on one policy!
Andy

1954 Conquest Mk1, 1956 Conquest Mk2, 1957 Conquest Century Mk2, 1955 Austin A90 Westminster

User avatar
marchesmark
Helpful Person
Helpful Person
Posts: 471
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by marchesmark »

Colin, I am pretty sure that if you speak to your Registrars, you can arrange this for the International without a problem. Whether we need a formally arranged 'drive up and we'll value your car' service is a moot point, but I am sure it could be arranged individually.

However be careful what you wish for: in the RREC it is done by post (and costs £40), you submit 2 forms and some notes on what work you've done, the valuation you place on the car and why you value it at that level, and the response is sent to you by post. It is not always the case that the Valuations Officer agrees with the valuation placed on the car by the proud owner. The website states:

'Members are asked to bear in mind that while the Valuation Officer supplies a service to the Club and understands that each car is priceless to its owner; he also has a duty to the Insurers to be fair and honest. Members are respectfully reminded of their need to be truthful, as fraud will invalidate their insurance.'

So if you ask a Registrar to value your car, you might need to be prepared for him to disagree with you.

Mark

Sydsmith
Extremely Wise Man
Extremely Wise Man
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by Sydsmith »

Had a closer look at the renewal notice for my cars and they have held the old values for the moderns and increased the value of the V8 to £11,000 and the SP to £22,000. Not a problem as I have reviewed values before renewing any way, I am with Heritage, they advertise in the DLOC magazine.

As Chris says, the insurance companies are in it to make money and why not they carry the risk, they will of course try every way to reduce the payout but why not, it is in our interest that they keep claims as low as possible because it reflects in our premiums. It costs little extra to ensure that your insured value is high enough.

There is the point that insurance companies buck at and penalise with additional premiums over high valuations because the insured may be on the make, but if you are sensible about insured value it works for both sides.

I was a director of a TV and electrical goods repair insurance company 20 years ago. It was a real eye opener and no surprise to me that companies build in a percentage for fraud. After a review of security measures and claims records, we did not have the advantage of high powered computers then, we discovered our third biggest agent had a claims record three times the average and repair bills twice the average. When challenged he would not admit guilt but after legal threats paid back over £25,000 in false claims, a huge sum back then. His cheating had in the meantime distorted the claims records and our profits and caused us to raise premiums to other customers.

a1peg
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:42 pm
Location: East Sussext

Re: Insurance valuations

Post by a1peg »

Colin,

I assume that you are aware that the DLOC offers a valuation service to its members and it will cost you £12 per car, the form can be downloaded from the DLOC website. As far as I am aware the form once stamped & endorsed by the DLOC is accepted by all the Companies that offer a agreed value deal.

As a club we do not make a valuation for insurance as there are enormous legal complications & implications to this but we will either agreed or disagree the value you put on the vehicle, if we agree the form you fill in will be signed and stamped for you to send to the Insurance company.

Alan

Company Secretary

Post Reply