Please visit the Club's website https://www.dloc.org.uk/ to join. Visit https://www.dloc.org.uk/adhoc to DONATE towards the cost of the forum.
Please don't post someone's email address to avoid it being harvested by spambots and it's against GDPR regulations.
Always look at "ACTIVE TOPICS" to see all posts in date & time order as they are sometimes moved; or look at "Your Posts".
Please add Reg. nrs. when posting a photo or anything about a car as this will help searches. Don't add punctuation next to nr. as this negates search.
CHANGED YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS since registering?, click your username and check your address in User Control Panel, Profile, Account Settings.
If you want help to register, use "contact us" at page bottom for help.

Tap and Die Sets

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
Post Reply
John Davis
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Thetford, Norfolk

Tap and Die Sets

Post by John Davis »

I am looking on Amazon and Ebay for a Metric tap and die set, to replace mine that was stolen recently.

I like the look of the ones that come with 3 taps of each size, starter, intermediate and bottoming, a die of each size and appropriate wrenches, all in a metal box.

What puzzles me is that what seems to be the same set is available at widely different prices, under different (made up by marketing men, I think) brand names - for instance 'Bergen' at about 30 quid, 'Mannesman' about the same, 'Yato' at 80, ;Thurmer' at 55.00.

The boxes, markings and contents appear the same, in different colours, but does anyone know if the expensive ones really are better quality, or are they just a rip off? Are any of them, regardless of price, worth buying?

I like the old fashioned ones in wooden boxes, but these seem to be difficult to buy in metric.

Any experience of this, anyone?

Sydsmith
Extremely Wise Man
Extremely Wise Man
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by Sydsmith »

After 50 years playing with old cars one thing I have learned is there is nothing more frustrating than a poor quality tool. Quality really counts in the long life and comfort of use stakes when it comes to tools.

Apart from trusted on line suppliers of brands I know, I never buy tools I cannot inspect before I buy, so rarely buy tools on line.

Halfords and the like are often over priced but you can occasionally get some bargains there, if they are flogging off tools.

I nearly always use a busy local garage car parts factor on the basis that if professionals shop there, they will be OK for me.

But as they say each to his own.

Simon Hyslop

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by Simon Hyslop »

Carbon steel sets are very brittle. This doesn't matter too much if all you're doing is cleaning threads but for making new threads, better quality tools are worth having. The Tap and Die company make (or made ? ) sets or individual items in what they call HQSS and it's sort of halfway between carbon steel and the best quality stuff. They also sell as Totem brand.

When I was a student 37 years ago, I started buying quality tools and among them were an Eclipse tap holder and a set of 1st 2nd and Bottom taps in each of 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8 NF. All of them are still working. Many other cheaper things have come and gone.
I'd buy a top quality tap wrench and those sizes in the appropriate thread form you need, NF, Whitworth or BSF. New old stock American ones can be very good from the war or just thereafter. Presto are good British ones. Some of the better shows such as the Salop Steam Fair still have traders with old and surplus stock at bargain prices.

After those sizes, I would buy as needed. A bottom tap in small BA sizes is all that is usually all that is required. I have found it incredibly rare to need very large sizes in any thread form.

Apart from a broken drill, there isn't much more awkward than a broken bit of tap stuck in something and that's when it's better to have one proper tool for the job than a set now missing one bit and 90% otherwise unused. An often overlooked useful item for some applications can be a thread file. It can help save some bolts or studs surprisingly well for what they cost.


In larger sizes, it takes a really good quality die to thread high tensile bolts if the thread is too short. Cheap dies will soon lose their edge and the thread will look right but be poorly formed. A top quality bottoming tap in larger sizes will probably do more work than the 1st and 2nd taps in the same sizes ever would.
A ready oil can and plenty of its application wil help l preserve whatever you buy. Sometimes hexagonal die nuts can help you out when space on a vehicle is limited. Die holders with just one screw are to be avoided. Three are needed because the round dies should be split.

A.N.Other
Wide Man
Wide Man
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:45 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by A.N.Other »

Go to RS components, Cromwell tools, or Buch & Hickman web sites and look at the Dormer or Presto taps. These are quality products that are widely used in the engineering industry. Compare the prices with the ones you are looking at.
Many of the boxed sets you talk of are very well packaged to emulate the good stuff but are poor quality and are only fit for looking nice on a shelf.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

Stan Thomas
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:14 pm
Location: Penkridge. Staffs.

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by Stan Thomas »

Tracy Tools specialise only in taps and dies - try them for a price. Their email address is info@tracytools.com and their 'phone number is 01803 328603. Fax 01803 328157.

If your purse will permit it, I'd strongly recomend you consider only buying H.S.S. ("high speed steel") taps and dies, as the carbon steel ones - although cheaper - are really a waste of money.

John Davis
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Thetford, Norfolk

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by John Davis »

Thanks everyone - I am ordering only the taps + dies I need from Tracy Tools - saves buying loads that I will never use in a big set.
Great advice on here as always.

Vortex O'Plinth
Extra-Wise Man
Extra-Wise Man
Posts: 1065
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:15 pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Tap and Die Sets

Post by Vortex O'Plinth »

If you're using taps primarily to clean up threads in situ one little tool I've found invaluable is a ratchet tap wrench. This conveniently helps you to work around features that would otherwise obstruct a standard wrench - cheap and very effective.
Nick

"Don't bother with the Air & Space Museum - there's nothing to see.......".

Post Reply