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Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by Sydsmith » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:59 am

This is all a bit of a blow, there was I thinking all my motors except the moderns would be MOT exempt in May, here we are with a problem, before it is even introduced.

I recon the classic car mags will pick up and run with this in the new year and they will dig out the detail before May.

I am wondering if many less informed owners would know if the car they have had been modified, unless the vendor told them.

Many years ago an elderly Uncle bought a Ford Escort 1300 from the wife of a chap who had died young. He always said it went like a bat out of hell and did not know why, till he met the son some years later, good to see Dads car in such good shape, Dad loved that car and fitted a twin cam engine to improve the performance !!!!

My SP has R&P steering and I would not want to change back to the old system, whilst the R&P has its own limitations the original steering was horrible by comparison, the slightest ridge in the road was not pleasant.

Hope they get this sorted and we can keep R&P and not have to suffer the annual MOT for the few miles I do in the cars, that having been said last time the eagle eyed tester spotted a slack nut and missing split pin in the front suspension which could have been a real problem had the nut come off.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by Chris_R » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:43 am

Geoff Douglas wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:29 pm
Just a thought, if rack & pinion steering is not more efficient than older steering devices, why is it fitted to many, if not all, modern cars?


Geoff, Colin is correct; rack and pinion steering is the simplest form and cheapest form of steering to make. It also lends itself more easily to power assistance.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by Vortex O'Plinth » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:13 pm

If you've made the conversion to R&P on the SP, the amount of stuff you've discarded compared with what you've added will give an idea of the relative cost. The usual reason given for the conversion is to lighten the steering effort and certainly it does achieve that to some extent.
The factors affecting my decision to convert were primarily precision and safety. In 'as new' condition the original steering is nicely weighted and prercise, however in addition to potential wear in the steering box itself, there are 4 ball joints, two metallastic bushes and the steering idler assembly all prone to significant wear as well; it doesn't take long for this wear to take place and result in significant play at the steering wheel. The safety consideration stems from the steering box being the lowest point on the car and the steering column being rigid. I'm sure many owners will have seen, as I have, the bolt heads on the bottom of the box nicely chamfered from contact with the road surface. Should the box encounter a significant pothole at speed the result could be lethal.

The R&P conversion is not without problems. To ensure clearance with the engine crankshaft pulley and allow room to change the fan belt the rack cannot be mounted far enough aft to retain the steering geometry. This is not critical for small steering angles, but at near full lock there is significant tyre scrub. This can be alleviated to some extent by fitting longer steering arms (TR4a) but while this will help to correct the geometry and reduce steering effort, it also increases the number of turns lock-to-lock.

The modern equivalent of the worm and lever steering is the recirculating ball system and most modern cars have either rack and pinion or recirculating ball steering. R&P generally gives better feedback to the driver and is common on cars with sporting pretensions while recirculating ball steering is more isolated from road feedback and is often found on large and luxury cars where comfort is important.
The difference can be quite marked. I have a Mercedes SLK having genuine claims to a sporting ability, however it was based on the contemporary C class saloon and retained that car's recirculating ball steering. The lack of road 'feel' or feedback is very noticeable when 'pressing on'.

Incidentally, Laurence Jones tell me he will be commenting on the implications of next years Mot exemption legislation in his next newsletter - which should be out shortly.

Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by Simon Hyslop » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:36 pm

The MOT situation is broadly in line with any other preservation activity. If an application is made to the Heritage Lottery Fund for money, it stands the greatest chance if the subject is either original i.e. as originally built or made, or to be returned to that condition.
I can think immediately of an organ in Glasgow that I used to play which had been built in the 1870s, "improved" in the 1950s and had been converted to electric action with the player aids this allows. This has now been returned, with HLF funding, to mechanical action and is, I suppose, a restored replica (?) of its original self.
The playing experience is authentic but more challenging, not unlike the steering argument. The instrument I now regularly play was built in1896 and the weight of the action can give me some aches and pains I would never have known in my yoof. The days of indiscriminately electrifying such instruments, largely on the basis of the many supposed benefits of modern materials or gizmos, are now largely past because the historical significance is now more widely recognised.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong, just that we can't expect to have the historical cake and eat it. The whole of the preservation and curation world outside cars is built on either returning items to their as built condition or maintaining them in it. Think of all the architectural and art related news items where an enthusiastic 20 something year old from a university is saying how they've found something wonderfully exciting by uncovering the original features and stripping back later work.
Central Europe latched onto this after the 2nd World War and that's where the motivation for these old car concessions have stemmed from (and I say that as a 'leaver'). They've been into preservation and re-creation in a way the UK has rarely been- think of the Euston Arch.

Personally, I am happy for people to do what they wish with what they have but ... (well, there had to be one, hadn't there?) I do find it slightly depressing in both cars for sale and at shows that there just seem to be so many fewer 30s and 40s cars which have the "feel" of how they did when I first knew them in the 1980s. It's largely down to restoration but finding cars which truly exhibit originality in all its facets is becoming an increasingly difficult challenge. I hope to find just one more in due course but I am much more pessimistic about doing so than I used to be, partly on the basis of reading about all the modifications so many seem to inflict on our four fendered friends.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by Sydsmith » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:07 pm

I am with you all the way in most of what you say Simon.

I am never going to fit electronic ignition change polarity or fit an alternator, neither am I ever going to fit overdrive or wire wheels where they never were. All these things do nothing to enhance the driving experience or reliability of the car.

But for safety sake R&P though not essential is a worth while mod which increases safety in a car that does 100 MPH+.

The only other mod I have done is to fit a stainless exhaust.

My other two cars are bog standard and though the V8 250 is a tough one to negotiate in tight spaces with no power assisted steering it is a joy to drive in it's 60's mode.

The 1937 15 is yet another experience and there is no way I am going to change that car in any way, except to fit better lighting, which will be behind closed doors so not at all intrusive. She is as I bought her with all her cosmetic faults scruffy and smelly but still a joy to own and drive. Syd

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by JT7196 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:46 pm

Hi Chaps,this may seem to be a daft question,but, can someone enlighten me to whether my 1976 Yamaha RS100 is also exempted from having to have an MOT test please ?
The reason I asked was,I returned my Yamaha, back on the road last year , it didn’t occur to me at the time but I seem to have Taxed it before it had its Mot.
The penny only dropped when I received the Tax reminder, apparently the Road Tax was due due on the 31st of Dec 2017 and the Mot is due on the 18th of January 2018 !!
Answers in the plain brown envelope please !, ;) ;) :)

Cheers A’l :D :D
Last edited by JT7196 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by JT7196 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:00 pm

JT7196 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:46 pm
Hi Chaps,this may seem to be a daft question,but, can someone enlighten me to whether my 1976 Yamaha RS100 is also exempted from having to have an MOT test please ?

Cheers A’l
1976 Yamaha RS 100
Last edited by JT7196 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by John-B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:13 pm

I think it can be exempt, but you have to declare it.
How to declare a vehicle for the 40 year MOT exemption Vehicle keepers are required to ensure that their vehicles are taxed when used on a public road. From 20 May 2018, at the point of taxing a vehicle, the vehicle keeper can declare their vehicle exempt from MOT if it was constructed more than 40 years ago.
When declaring an exemption, you will be required to confirm that it has not been substantially changed (as defined in this guidance). This process will be applied to pre-1960 registered vehicles, as well as newer vehicles in the historic vehicle tax class.
If the vehicle does not have an MOT and you wish to continue using it on the public roads, you will have either to undergo an MOT or, if you wish exemption from the MOT, to declare that the vehicle is a VHI. If the vehicle has a current MOT certificate but you anticipate that on expiry of that certificate you will wish exemption from future MOTs you will at the time of relicensing be required to declare that the vehicle is a VHI.

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by JT7196 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:53 pm

Hi John, you are probably right, but nobody asked the question last year?.
Only it was only when the Road Tax reminder came through last month, I suddenly realised that the Tax was due towards the end of last December2017 , but the MOT expiry date is around the 18th of January this year, !
Normally, one needs a valid MOT with at least around a month left on it , before you can Tax your vehicle . I have already actually “Taxed” my Yamaha , so presumably the Taxation Dept do not seem to bother to ask !

Cheers A’l....."..A confused A’l :| :|

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Re: Forthcoming rolling MoT exemption

Post by JT7196 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:56 pm

Come to think of it, I have never applied for an MOT exception certificate for my Lanchester either .

Cheers A’l :shock:

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