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Uninsured driver

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
Fossil
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: Helensburgh, Argyll

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Fossil »

So do the creators of new legislation re RFL discs, and police who seem to be ridiculously unable to use simple logic, all have their cerebral logic centres inactivated in some way? Or are there clever tests which identify individuals lacking powers of logic altogether, in order for them to be appointed to posts where illogicality is considered a safe option to reduce the workload of staff? What other reason could there be for such egregious collective stupidity?

Cheers

Geoff

Christopher Storey
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:40 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Christopher Storey »

John Hitchin's statement that without a current MOT , insurance cover is invalidated is incorrect , except in the very unlikely event of the policy expressly stipulating this . Quite apart from anything else, it would be impossible then legally to drive a car to an MOT station for test unless the vehicle was already covered by an MOT certificate . The regulations cover this eventuality by exempting vehicle form the MOT requirement during the time it is being driven to or from the test station for a test by prior appointment

Stan Thomas
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:14 pm
Location: Penkridge. Staffs.

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Stan Thomas »

Chris is correct about the "confusion" circulated that no MOT means your insurance is invalidated - and even the police get it wrong! In the alternative, whilst it would be true if such a clause was so incorporated as a condition of insurance - I have yet to evidence that such prevails.

Have you ever been asked whether or not you have a valid MOT when applying for car insurance - and has anyone seen such a question in the pro-forma application when applying on line?

John Hitchins
Site Admin
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:52 am
Location: Wellington Somerset

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by John Hitchins »

Chris you say my statement is incorrect but I quoted from the law.

I can only repeat Google it

The law and Invalid insurance

Without a current MOT, your car insurance would become invalid. Not having a valid MOT certificate is illegal under Section 47 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and you run the risk of facing a £1,000 fine and a charge of six to eight penalty points on your licence by driving without one.

As for driving a car without MOT to get an MOT it has been legal for years providing it is pre booked and nearest.
Are you suggesting a car that with faulty brakes and no MOT killing someone in an un roadworthy car ie no MOT the insurance would be happy to pay out? I dont think so. This is for non classics.

Why are cars impounded by the Police if stopped no MOT?

Norfolk Lad
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Norfolk Lad »

Sorry John yes it has to be pre booked but not the nearest the MOT testing station can be any , if you have a Motor Traders policy you are covered without MOT but only for repair or testing on private insurance.
But the law states roadworthy at time of testing,we are still duty bound to keep the car roadworthy at all times.

Peter

John Hitchins
Site Admin
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:52 am
Location: Wellington Somerset

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by John Hitchins »

Stan, the insurance never ask if MOT is on the car as it is expected to have one but if you dont would your company insure you if
said the car was unroadworthy? ie no MOT?

New Dexter
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:41 am

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by New Dexter »

While a vehicle must have insurance to be used on the road surely it is possible to drive to and from an MOT station for vehicle testing. If a driver takes an insured vehicle to a test station and it fails but he is returning home to fix it his insurance should cover him. However, one MOT tester told me that should he find the car is so dangerous that it shouldn't be on the road in the first place he would not be able to prevent the owner from driving it home

Chris_R
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:48 pm
Location: Twickenham

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Chris_R »

Not having an MOT is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts. Not having insurance is also an offence under the Road Traffic Acts. They are two separate offences but are offences against the law.
Driving from an MOT station after a dangerous failure is also an offence against the law but the previous posting is correct, the MOT tester is not there to enforce the law and therefore cannot prevent someone driving away.
The situation regarding MOT and Insurance with regard to the insurance companies is confused and grey. You challenged me to Google it and I found this:
Driving without a valid MOT - check your car insurance. Driving without an MOT won't always make your insurance invalid. In most instances the insurers will still pay out in full - and if your car is stolen, or damaged, the payout will usually only be reduced to reflect the value of the car without a current MOT.
This from the Parkers.co.uk website. Parkers of course is the very well known motoring related website.

Then I found this:
Without a current MOT, your car insurance would become invalid. Not having a valid MOT certificate is illegal under Section 47 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and you run the risk of facing a £1,000 fine and a charge of six to eight penalty points on your licence by driving without one.
This is from the thinkmoney.co.uk website which matches the quote you found.

So, what we have are different quotes from different websites. One says they will pay out in most circumstances, the other says they won't. You can't simply trust what Google shows without qualification.

Further investigation shows the following guidance from the Financial Ombudsman under Roadworthiness:
Most motor policies contain a specific requirement that the vehicle must be maintained in a roadworthy state. When deciding whether it was reasonable for an insurer to reject a consumer’s claim, we will look for evidence that the loss or damage was mostly likely caused – or was significantly contributed to – because the vehicle was not roadworthy.

An insurer can also reduce a payout on the basis that the vehicle was not in good condition. In these cases, we will look for evidence that the condition of the condition of the vehicle – or parts of it – were poor to decide whether this deduction is fair.

If the vehicle did not have a current MOT certificate, we will consider how likely it was that the vehicle would have passed an MOT test. If we decide – on the balance of probabilities – that the vehicle would have failed the test, we are likely to say that a deduction of up to 10% is reasonable.
This entire guidance from the Financial Ombudsman indicates that insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT. The implication of this is that the innocent 3rd party will be paid in full but the insured's claim for their own loss may be reduced or perhaps declined altogether.

Stan Thomas
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:14 pm
Location: Penkridge. Staffs.

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by Stan Thomas »

First and foremost - a car is not automatically deemed unroadworthy because it does not have an MOT - they are two seperate issues within the meaning of the Road Traffic Acts (RTA) - notwithstanding the validation conveyed by an MOT is only for the day of issue, after which but still within the timescale whilst the MOT remains current the vehicle has twelve months in which to become "unroadworthy".

In law, any charge for using a vehicle in an unroadworthy condition has to be specifically proven in court .Not having an MOT is a seperate charge.

Furthermore, the RTA make no provision for the distinction between vehicles which require an MOT and those which do not by virtue of age insofar as the validity of insurance is concerned.

John Hitchins
Site Admin
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:52 am
Location: Wellington Somerset

Re: Uninsured driver

Post by John Hitchins »

On the TV Police programs every car without MOT is impounded without question, with costly fees to the driver for recovery and storage with no exception. I think anyone on this site is caught without MOT will get the same treatment unless someone knows different. I also notice the fine for having no insurance tax and MOT is often less than I pay to be legal. Modern times.

I am not sure how classics are treated, I know my DB18 headlights are not bright enough for modern day traffic and my trafficators were frowned upon when we did need the test.

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