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Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
Chris_R
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Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Chris_R »

Reported today by The Telegraph is that Boris Johnson's Government is planning to bring forward the date for the ban of new petrol only & diesel only cars by 5 years to 2035 to tackle air pollution levels, in particular nitrogen dioxides.
Hybrid cars that combine petrol & electric motors are not included in the ban.

Simon Hyslop

Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Simon Hyslop »

For any of us on the roads with older vehicles after 2035, carry a good tow rope as it may be needed to move the discharged electrics out of the way.

Sydsmith
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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Sydsmith »

At the pace electric car technology is going forward and with running costs so low and likely to remain so, can we not expect petrol and diesel car production to fade away during the next ten years, let alone the next fifteen. Perhaps the only other current competitor would be hydrogen and that technology is also gathering pace.

The question for us classic car owners is will be still be able to buy fuel for our cars in twenty years time. Not that I am expecting to be able to drive mine at 100 years old, but who knows, keep positive. Perhaps we will all be converting them to hydrogen.
1
I see in the news today UPS have invested heavily in a UK company Arrival and ordered 10,000 of their electric vans and Amazon have ordered 10,000 electric vans from a US supplier, seems they have confidence in electric propulsion.

Before any one says so I gather there is an enterprising company that will convert some classics to electric but at a fantastic price.

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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Chris_R »

I agree Syd. Already Volvo only make hybrid cars, none of their models are solely petrol or diesel. VW are investing $30billion by 2030 to go electric, Daimler over $11billion, BMW another $6.5billion and Fiat another €9billion. These are eyewatering amounts which tells us what the future automobiles will be like. Already the carbon footprint of an electric car over is entire life cycle is calculated by some to be about 75% that of petrol or diesel cars. Whether that figure is true or not I don't know. Apparently the carbon footprint to manufacture them is higher but then in use it is far less. The internal combustion engine is only about 25% efficient at best whereas an electric motor is around 85% efficient at converting energy into mechanical (propulsion) energy.
As for availability of petrol we only need to look at Norway to see the possible future here. I believe electric cars now outsell ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars. Petrol stations have been ripping out petrol pumps and replacing them with electricity charging points. Over time as the use of electric grows we will likely see a similar trend as it gradually becomes less economic to stock and sell petrol. Or there will be still fewer petrol stations around. I think this will take a long time, at least another 30 or 40 years as it takes at least 15 years before the majority of new cars being sold today are gone from the roads so we can probably count on at least 20 years after the point where electric cars are selling in the majority.

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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by John-B »

I suppose we could get an oil tank placed in our property and get it filled up with petrol occasionally, like liquid gas home-heating tanks. No good for long distance travel if there are no petrol stations, but many of us only drive within the scope of one tank's capacity.

Chris_R
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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Chris_R »

Can't do that John, that's illegal. You're only allowed to keep either 20 or 30 litres (I forget which) and the shelf life like that is only 6 months at best anyway. And some of us do drive quite some distance in our historic cars. Last year I took my Jensen to Whitby - almost 280 miles each way and several other longer journeys. To Ludlow, to Bude (I know, I get to the most exciting places) and so on. This year probably Scotland and back. Next year though it will be to Milan and Turin & back.
No, there will have to be another solution. But it's not going to come that quickly for you and I to worry about it too much.

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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by heh101353 »

The big question I guess is: Where does all this electricity will come from?

It looks as if the consumption of electricity will rise from year to year.
Because of this politics try to regulate the power consumption of each and every electrical device.
That’s the reason you can’t buy a decent vacuum cleaner any more.They are all capped at 1600 watts. There are many more examples.
On the other hand more and more things “go electrical”. Before the amazing thing of telephone over internet, phones at home were self-sufficient will say the power needed was delivered over the telephone line. Today each and everybody needs a modem or router 24 hours a day.
Oh and by the way phones even functioned at power outages …

So again where will all this electricity come from?
In Switzerland they did shutdown the first nuclear plant on the 20 of December last year. They made a big media event out of this. Everybody was invited to watch the button being pushed.
But Switzerland takes this very easy. Much to the disdain of neighbour Germany.

I’m not an advocate of nuclear power plants, not at all.
Just a few miles from where I live there is a nuclear power plant (Fessenheim) in Alsace, France. I lost of track of all the incidents they had during the last few years there. It is planned to shut it down by June this year. Hurray!!

Absolutely interesting is what’s going on over there in Germany.
They will shut down all nuclear power plants by 2022.
And they will shut down all carbon power plants as well by 2038. They want to go all “green”.
But electricity only from wind and solar power stations is just not possible.
These forms of power are far from being reliable sources. Wind blows or does not blow, sun is shining or does not shine sufficiently and does definitely not shine at night. On top of this these alternative sources deliver what I call “fidgeting power”. Too many peaks and lows just like an electrocardiogram during a heart attack - you need something to compensate the lows. The peaks you most likely have to throw away!
And now on top of this all vehicles on the road will need to switch to electricity - my ass. Excuse my language here.

This smells like politics at its purest!

It just will not add up, at least not they way we’re told it will be.

I for my part will lean back in my easy chair or in the bucket seat of my SP and watch the theater unfold. :lol:

Oh by the way, my day to day car is 15 year old Prius. :o
Before that there was a Chevy Blazer :twisted: :twisted:
Just to make clear I’m open to changes.

Hans
:o owner since 2015 :mrgreen:
https://www.wyhe.ch/

grahamemmett
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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by grahamemmett »

And where is all the Lithium to build all these batteries supposed to come from? There’s a finite supply.
Graham Emmett ¦ DLOC Chairman ¦ chair@dloc.co.uk ¦ 07967 109160
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Chris_R
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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Chris_R »

Totally correct Graham. We are jumping from one frying pan into the other. Fossil fuels are a finite resource that contribute (so we are told) to climate change. It's current replacement, Lithium battery power, apparently only has reserves of about 15 million tonnes of lithium. An article I just read suggests that if all the current petrol and diesel cars are replaced by lithium battery powered cars we would use the entire reserves of lithium in about 50 years. This is not taking into account all the other uses of lithium.
The powers that be haven't really thought this through.

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Re: Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

Post by Sydsmith »

Ah! what a wonderful can of worms we have opened here, with so much more yet to come I hope.

I does not take a Doctorate in economics to work out that if the whole world were to follow the UK and aim to be rid of petrol and diesel vehicles in 15 years time there will be a wholesale change in the demand from one set of manufacturing materials to a completely different set and frying pan into fire as has been said has to be the outcome.

Internal combustion Engines and gearboxes demand heavy ferrous metals in plentiful supply world wide. Electric motors and batteries require light none ferrous metals which are more expensive come from a different source and have a finite supply.

Ferrous metals demand a great deal of energy to transform them from ore to engine, electric motors very much less.

You have to admire the pace the motor industry has moved from internal combustion to electric power.

That all having been said, the production of hydrogen is very simple, it uses water and clean electricity produces few carbon nasties and has potentially an infinite supply of extremely cheap eco friendly raw materials, why are we not developing more hydrogen propelled road vehicles?

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