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Waterless coolant

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
sp250boy
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Location: Llanybydder Wales

Waterless coolant

Post by sp250boy »

Waterless coolant is a glycol-based liquid substance that does not contain water. Its boiling point of 191 °C is higher than that of water-based coolants and it resists the formation of corrosion. The substance was invented to circumvent the problems of vaporizing water. When water vaporizes, it retains only 4% of its thermal conductivity. Water-based coolants are safe at temperatures below the boiling point of water to maintain the pressure of the system.

Is anybody using this in there cars, expensive but seems to be beneficial.
Comments?
It is a Lanchester

classiclife
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by classiclife »

Steve,

This is a topic that gets a lot of exposure via other classic vehicle forums.

In essence we are talking about Evans.

Basically, in a nut shell, it is an expensive change over - as the original coolant system needs to be completely cleared of any water / AF residue. The clearing out fluid is costly and the price of the actual waterless item to fill is the system is equally high.

Should you suffer a significant coolant leak with waterless when out & about your only option is to use waterless as it is incompatible with water, hence the nigh on forensic level of initial clearing required as stated.

Increased boiling point increases pressure and that is not a good situation for the Edward Turner engine when using low pressure rad caps. Other marques with higher rad cap pressures cope better.

Cynically, the stuff was invented as it promoted a very healthy profit............ you could say it was the latest fashion item to have in your car !!

Scale formation occurs because of calcium in water plus other alkaline elements, which is a real issue when people use tap water (especially in hard water areas) the ideal water to use is de-ionised water which has these harmful elements nigh on removed.

De-ionised water is extremely cheap and available from supermarkets plus when used with a decent BLUE AF, such as Granville Blue Sub Zero, it becomes the perfect medium to resist corrosion and retain an effective cooling process.

Iron block and alloy head should run a 50/50 mix to get the maximum anti-corrosion properties and protection.

The above is just a snap shot plus very basic comparison between waterless -v- generally used AF coolant and that is without even going in to the science of it along with chemical formula to widen the debate.

Save your money.......................... clever product wording can be blinding !!

Regards.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Branch Secretary
DLOC 2.5L V8 & V8-250 Registrar - https://www.dloc.org.uk/v8-250
DLOC 2024 International Rally - https://www.dloc.org.uk/rally-2024

sp250boy
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Location: Llanybydder Wales

Re: Waterless coolant

Post by sp250boy »

Hi Richard,
that was a useful overview and I'm going to fill the old girl with de-ionised water and Granville Blue Sub Zero.

Thanks for the quick response
It is a Lanchester

A.N.Other
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by A.N.Other »

It is not allowed to be used on track. If used on a track parade, track day or competition you will be banned.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

Rolf B.
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:07 pm
Location: 68309 Mannheim, Germany

Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Rolf B. »

After an total engine and radiator overhaul the cooling system of my 1933 Daimler 15 Sports Coupé was filled with Evans cooling liquid. The stripped engine block and cylinder head was scaled and rust removed by chemical bath and the radiator got a new block. Because the Evans cooling is very expensive an expansion tank was added and fitted into one of the two unused spare wheel wells in the the fenders. The 15 Coupé has the spare wheel fitted at the rear of the luggage trunk. The expansion tank is connected by tube to the end of the radiator overflow so that the expensive coolant liquid runs into the tank instead useless to the ground when hot and is drawn back from the tank into the radiator when getting cold.

It is necessary to have one or two pints of Evans coolant in the trunk, if you have to refill coolant liquid when en route, because it is not wise to add water.

Rolf

classiclife
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by classiclife »

Hello Steve,

As an example, Tesco sell de-ionised in 2.5L containers for £1.50 - no doubt Aldi / Lidl will sell the same for less; but as stated all supermarkets stock it.

I've picked a random quote from a Triumph Forum to give an example of issues:

Hi, I have been using Evans coolant in the TR6 this year (2019) and found that normal use the temperature gauge stays in the usual position; but hit traffic jams it goes up just under the red and even with two electric fans on it stays in the same position until on the move, past years one fan would bring it down - so after one years trial and super silly cost will be going back to water and antifreeze.

As with all these situations, it is personal choice............. but in the main classic car folk tend to stay with the water & blue.

Regards.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Branch Secretary
DLOC 2.5L V8 & V8-250 Registrar - https://www.dloc.org.uk/v8-250
DLOC 2024 International Rally - https://www.dloc.org.uk/rally-2024

Flinty
Posts: 90
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Location: Scarborough

Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Flinty »

Here is an interesting article by Norosio.com a US company.
The summary is below.

Steve.




SUMMARY OF FINDINGS

Conversion costs of $259 if you do it yourself, or over $400 if you pay a shop to do it.

97%+ removal of all previous coolant is mandatory in order to prevent corrosion.

Inhibitor deposition occurs on aluminum surfaces, which could cause issues in some radiators.

Engines run 115-140oF hotter (at the cylinder heads) with Evans products.

Stabilized coolant temps are increased by 31-48oF, versus straight water with No-Rosion.

Reprogramming ECU fan temp settings is mandatory to prevent the fan from running continuously.

Specific heat capacity of Evans waterless products ranges from 0.64 to 0.68, or about half that of water.

Engine octane requirement is increased by 5-7 numbers.

Computerized ignition must retard engine timing by 8-10o to prevent trace knock.

Engine horsepower is reduced by 4-5%.

Accelerated recession of non-hardened valve seats in older engines is possible, due to brinelling.

Viscosity is 3-4 times higher than what OEM water pumps are rated to accommodate.

Coolant flow rate through radiator tubes is reduced by 20-25% due to the higher viscosity.

Race tracks prohibit Evans products because they are flammable and slippery when spilled.

Ursa major
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:21 pm
Location: Eindhoven

Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Ursa major »

I use Evans, having started with a rebuilt engine and cooling system, so I could avoid ever having any water in it. I run a 4psi radiator cap to keep pressures in the system at a minimum and have, to date, had no problems. I have run the car in 37 degree temperatures and it hasn't overheated, although the gauge does climb to an indicated 115 (although how accurate that is, I have no idea. For comparison, it sits on 90 when running normally).

Here is a link to a fairly long discussion about it; the last post being a rebuttal from Evans of the points made by Norosion which have been duplicated in a post above.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threa ... 905/page-2.

It may be more expensive, but I see it as a "fit and forget" solution with lower operating pressures reducing the chance of catastrophic leaks.

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marchesmark
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by marchesmark »

I would never use this stuff. The fact that an engine filled with waterless coolant doesn't boil does not mean it hasn't overheated. Waterless is much less efficient than water at removing heat, so the engine runs much hotter. What damage is that doing to it? Oil is thinner, so bearings may be less lubricated. What about white metal components or gaskets? Aluminium heads? Valves, seats and guides? What is the higher running temp doing to them? Waterless coolant is also more viscous, so the water pump has to work harder to move it - is the pump up to it?

Too many people think that using waterless coolant is a way of curing overheating. It isn't. The best way to cure overheating is to repair the failed component, not try to mask it with something else. And if we are talking about pre-war unpressurised systems, then remember that boiling is the car's' way of telling you it needs a short rest. Pushing on with an engine labouring way hotter than it should be is a sure way to inflict permanent damage on it. As for 'fit and forget', why would you do that? Inspection, servicing and maintenance is all part of owning any car, particularly an old one. Changing coolant every year or two gives you an opportunity to check hoses, thermostats, pumps, internal heating systems etc etc. Each to their own and so on, and if it works for someone then fine, but I would not use it on any of my cars.

Mark

Brian-H
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Brian-H »

I don't know whether I'd use it on a modern car engine, but on an unpressurised engine such as a DB18 Consort (which is basically a kettle LOL), the requirement to close the system off and fit a pressurised cap and an overflow tank would definitely be too much effort for me.

Thinking of whether a high performance car would need it, I looked at coolant for a Ferrari 812 superfast (6.5 litre V12 0-60 2.9 secs) and the coolant for that doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

So it's difficult to know what particular road-car engines would benefit from it.

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