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Consort - family owned from new

Car histories: owners, dates, etc. restorations, events visited, holidays, stories about the car, etc. plus statistics like numbers and models produced.
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Brian-H
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Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

I was a member of DLOC from mid-80s to mid-90s, then again since 2005.

I have a 1952 Consort, which my grandfather bought new in 1952 (I have the original bill-of-sale, the original log-book, petrol-coupons, etc). He was a dealer/speculator in the cloth trade in Manchester in the 40s/50s and bought it as a "company car" before closing the business and retiring early to a nice bungalow up in the hills on the north coast of Wales.

The car was given to me in May 1975, registered in my mother's name, with me as a named driver (I registered it in my name in 1990). Here is a picture of me in the car taken January 1976
Image

As a 19-year-old student you can imagine the antics I got up to with that car, and its "health" deteriorated quite a bit. Having said that, when I got it from my grandfather, the block was slightly cracked (he'd left it in his garage adjacent to the bungalow in a severe winter without any antifreeze) , the fluid-flywheel oil-seal leaked, and the head-gasket started to leak soon after I got the car.

My father got hold of the "trader" supplement which told how to remove the front wings and engine, which I did in the summer of 1976. But it wasn't until ~10 years later that I put it back together, using a replacement engine that I bought in Exchange and Mart (Gumtree/ebay equivalent in those days), but the cylinders had quite a bit of wear, and by 1992 it started to blow smoke, which is the last time that I drove the car. While the car is nowhere near a "car SOS" condition, I want to get that engine rebuilt as new, then sort out the paintwork on the body and wings.

Several years ago there was an ex-MOD engine on ebay being hawked for £6k and although £6k seemed a ripoff price (??) I'm now beginning to think I should have bought that, because a new set of liners + new set of pistons from Beales takes up 25% of £6k already. Then there's the cost of getting the waterways in the block descaled, the liners pressed in, the block and head skimmed, the valve-guides renewed, etc, etc.

So ...
Anyone know of a good place that can do the work on the engine, any idea of a ball-park figure ??

ranald
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by ranald »

Hi Brian, I had some good work done by AGRA in Dundee. http://www.agra-eng.co.uk/services/clas ... ngineering
You could ask them for an indication of price.
All the best, Ranald

classiclife
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by classiclife »

Hello Brian,

I have sent a PM which may be of assistance to you.

Regards.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Branch Secretary
DLOC 2.5L V8 & V8-250 Registrar - https://www.dloc.org.uk/v8-250
DLOC 2024 International Rally - https://www.dloc.org.uk/rally-2024

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Hi Ranald and Richard

Fortunately I'm located centrally in England so most places are within reach, and I have quite a large estate car to transport the engine.

Any suggestions from anyone else also welcome.

Thanks
Brian

grahamemmett
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by grahamemmett »

Brilliant story.
Please sign up to our specialist site www.db18.org
Graham Emmett ¦ DLOC Chairman ¦ chair@dloc.co.uk ¦ 07967 109160
Northwich, Cheshire
DB18 1949 LCV522 (Yes that one with the P100s)

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Quick update. I've been in contact with several people and I have a plan for the engine, but that won't start until the new year.

I only live 4 miles from the East Midlands monthly venue (last Wednesday of each month) so I ought to start attending that and get input from there too.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Because the engine in the car is not the original, and because it requires a lot of work, and because I don't have the original engine block any more, I've decided to abandon the idea.

But I'm not abandoning the car. Instead, and to bring the car into the 21st Century, I'm going to do an electric conversion !!
I've already converted a couple of push-bikes to electric, so I'm very familiar with the concepts involved e.g. BLDC motors (BrushLess DC ) have a 3-phase DC stator with controller to produce the 3-phase pulses onto the poles in the stator. For larger power, there's modern a.c. motors, with associated controllers for those.

In order to keep the rest of the car as-is (same brakes, same rear axle, same diff, same gearbox, same fluid-flywheel) I've decided to mount an a.c. motor (of similar torque/power) with its controller, where the engine bolts onto the bell-housing. All that is required, is a suitable faceplate for the motor onto bell-housing, and suitable coupling on motor shaft, onto which the flywheel would bolt.

Before doing anything else, I decided to check it out in a spreadsheet. I've spent the last 3 weeks developing a spreadsheet that gives the acceleration curves for any car. All I need is the engine/motor torque curve, the gearbox ratios, the diff ratio, the top speed in lower gears, the wheel radius (to outer tyre edge), the car mass, the body width (exclude mirrors), the body height (exclude wheels), and the side profile of the body (to estimate the drag coeff).

I have all that data for the Consort and original Daimler engine, and I have all that data for a 7th gen Honda Accord with the 2.4 litre K24A3 engine, including the acceleration times for the Accord. So I've done 3 data sheets each for - the standard Honda Accord with K24A3 engine, the standard Consort with original 2.5 lire engine, and a Consort with an electric motor of similar power to the Consort engine but with higher rpm and different torque curve, in the Consort.

First graph below shows the 3 torque curves for each engine/motor
D2.5 Torque = torque curve of Daimler 2.5 engine as used in Consort (shortest curve below)
elec Torque = torque curve of selected a.c. motor
K24A3 Torque = torque curve of Honda K24A3 2.4 iVTEC engine (highest curve below)
Image


In the next 3 graphs, CDA = the above Daimler engine in Consort, CEM = the above electric motor in Consort

Second graph shows the overall acceleration force (in Newtons) on each car in each gear (force at tyre edge, minus force due to rolling resistance, minus force due to drag)
Image


Third graph shows the actual acceleration (in m/s/s) on each car in each gear (based on above curves).
In comparison, the acceleration due to gravity = 9.8 m/s/s
Image


Fourth graph shows the acceleration time against speed, for each car (based on above curves).
Image


These 4 graphs all use the same type of data on each data sheet for each car, but different formulas in the data sheets for each scenario. Because the acceleration curve for the Accord fits almost exactly with reality, the spreadsheet must be right for the two Consorts.

It shows that my chosen electric motor in the Consort improves the acceleration. 0 to 60 in 16 seconds (vs 0 to 60 in 22 seconds with original engine) , 0 to 70 in 27 seconds (vs 0 to 70 in 39 seconds with original engine), but won't stress the transmission.

The other point of using an electric motor is vastly increased reliability, vastly superior running costs, cleaner in that no oil and water splatting about under the bonnet, greener in that no CO2 or other pollutants.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only fly in the ointment is that the body on my grandfather's car needs a lot of work (roof is bad, interior is bad) so before I start on the electric conversion project I'll have to find somewhere to take the car (with engine and transmission removed) to get the work done. When completed, I'll then order the chosen motor/controller, get the faceplate/coupling made, and then consider the number of battery packs and battery management system (which would all fit in the large space in the engine compartment around and above the electric motor).

Chris_R
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Chris_R »

That'll be an interesting project, one that I am sure will excite opinions on both sides of the argument. The one thought I did have on your proposals to watch the weight of the various battery packs in replacement for the engine and to keep the weight balance more or less similar to the (removed) engine.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Yes it'll be interesting trying to figure out the balance of the car.

What I need is the mass (weight) of the original 2.5 litre engine, complete with water pump, dynamo, starter motor, manifolds, water & oil. I'll also remove the radiator and cowling. Several years ago I measured an empty block on bathroom scales at 70 kg, I'd guess that the crankshaft and head are about 50 kg each. So I reckon the total weight is somewhere between 200 kg and 300 kg.

The entire engine bay from bell-housing forwards will be space for the relatively small electric motor plus its controller, and then the battery packs. I doubt if they will all come to even 200kg. If so, I might have to get the springs shortened a tad ?

I'd love to get this all done by the autumn, but as I say, before I scope out the issues of weight, the car's body needs a lot of work (roof is bad, interior is bad). but thr chassis and suspension and brakes are in very good condition.

I'm budgeting towards £10k to get the work done on the body and interior. Then another £5k on the electric motor plus controller, then at least a further £5k (possibly up to £15k depending on range I'd want and space available) on the battery packs and battery management system. For £30k you can get a new base-level Tesla 3, but I'd rather have something very different. The other issue is that once you buy an off-the-shelf electric car, you're stuck with the usual dealer problems (I've not found a dealer that I could trust, including Honda).

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Does anyone know how the wooden structure was put into the Consort roof, and how easy/difficult it would be to get it out ?
The reason is that, on my family-owned Consort, the side "beams" supporting the central pillars and gutters are now potentially rotten.

The following are scans of photos that came with stuff I got in the 80's from another car

front driver side
Image

rear driver side
Image

front passenger side
Image

rear passenger side
Image

These show the gutter and headlining on the family-owned car, but taken in the 90's
Image
Image


By looking at the photos and the car itself today, from what I can make out, the following would need to be removed (in order of difficulty/time required)
1. both front seats and all four doors
2. side trim both sides
3. rear quarter-light both sides
4. both central door pillars (screwed in at top and bottom)
5. gutters both sides (screwed into the side beams of the structure)

After removing screws at the front and rear holding the structure to the body, the entire structure should then swing down from the front.

Questions
Does this sound feasible ?
Would the structure come away with the headlining still attached to the wood ?
Would the metal roof retain its shape (i.e. when they originally inserted the wooden structure, I presume that the roof shape was already formed) ?
Does the wooden structure just act as a "support" for the central pillars and the roof's shape ?
How did they prevent water getting into the side "beam" from the gutter ?

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