Who will chime in as regards the best cam grind for a fast road 2 1/2 litre V8 ? (manual as per SP250.. so seeking more upper range torque) I'm about to send some cams for re-conditioning .
One of the current builds ls using a set of high compression Triumph Bonneville pistons (+.060" over.. translates to approx +/-.035" 0ver std for Daimler) ..the most popular cam profile on the older triumph motorcycles remains the E3134 profile as far as i can tell..with same lift and duration on exhaust side as well . Wondering if anyone has experience with using this in the daimler V8 ?
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improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
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daimlersteve
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Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
It seems that Russ Carpenter has a grind that would do the job on a std. cam. get in touch with him.
To get over .350 lift the cam needs building up. Its a gamble whether you go through the hardening at this point. steve.
To get over .350 lift the cam needs building up. Its a gamble whether you go through the hardening at this point. steve.
Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
thanks Steve.. Im sticking with local outfits due to practical rises such as shipping abroad and turn around time..Use to use Shnieder for alley cams reprofiles, but things are no longer good there after the death of the founder.. Delta cams quoted 3 day turn around time ..and they believe they have the triumph bonneviile E3134 grind. actually the standard profile is really quite decent and works well with auto trans..but Im going with some minor upgrades for more power on the manual /overdrive car . Hardening :- essential to re-harden.. most cams have nitrided surface.. this is generally less then .002" in depth.. I dont have single daimler V8 cam that is not scored on lobes to some extent..
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daimlersteve
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Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
Read the " green book" It shows the material of the cam and according to local heat treatment co. this is not nitritable but case hardened. Good luck in keeping it straight ( though ive become a dab hand at straightening these. ( 70 thou back to 1 thou. the most recent. )
Once again --- contact Dennis as he has an isky grind on a std. cam. for about 350 lift.
steve
Once again --- contact Dennis as he has an isky grind on a std. cam. for about 350 lift.
steve
Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
Probably wise to speak to Steve Sanett at Penta Motorsports in the US. I have spoken to him regarding a new billett camshaft with modified tappet chest to suit. Otherwise Piper has two regrind profiles available. I had the stock camshafts measured by CatCams and they are very mild with very shallow ramp angles. The total duration might be high, but if measured at a certain lift and not just the start of the lift they are mild.
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daimlersteve
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Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
Stock cam is around 37 degrees from opening to 0.050 lift moderns can do 28 degrees or less. With more lift there can be a lot more area under the curve.
steve
steve
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daimlersteve
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Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
Have emailed Steve S. at Penta Racing re cams. Wil await the responce.
steve
steve
Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
reply to Sonus..I have attempted on various occasions over the past 2 years to contact Steve at Penta mortorsports.. they are in a location Im familiar with and regularly visit.. so far I've never had any response from them.. I am aware that Iskendarian have a cam grinds for the daimler v8... but have not researched what they have or talked with them so far.. in the past I used Shneider in san diego for my bespoke cam grinds and they have always provided excellent power improvements right where i requested it.however..things are not well with than company anymore... I did talk with Delta cams in Wa, who were recomended by he current machinists I use.. and they are willing to help..
What Id really like to know, is if anyone has personal experience with the most popular grind common for the triumph speed twins..(E3134) which has very similar internal design to the Daimler V8 ( designed by same individual..same basic principals) and hence its power delivery is in similar range..
What Id really like to know, is if anyone has personal experience with the most popular grind common for the triumph speed twins..(E3134) which has very similar internal design to the Daimler V8 ( designed by same individual..same basic principals) and hence its power delivery is in similar range..
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daimlersteve
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Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
I recall looking at this many years ago.
Because the twin cyl. cam profile works in that application it's not really applicable to the wt. and variable
loading requirements of a car. The ramps are designed for a .002 " clearance so are very different to one with .012 "ish clearances. The follower radius has a marked effect on timing and there are various versions in the triumph range . The Cam timing is at 20 thou lift compared to actual opening in the SP spec. so there is some timing to be added there as well. IF you can track down a cam you'll see the opening acceleration is much greater than an old valve train might like. The Triumph included valve angle is different ,therefore the pocket clearances in the High compression triumph pistons can be tight when used in an SP with a high lift cam ( best to check this with putty)
The lift at follower is listed as .314 "on the spec sheet so this gives .421" at the Sp valve stem . The rockers are on quite an angle at this lift ( dummy up a block and head and all is revealed )
To get this as a regrind leaves a very much reduced base circle . Not a pretty thing when you see how much the core ( between the lobes ) has to be further reduced to clear the followers.
At 100.5 degrees c/l setting its not looking good for a street car.
I have a cam ground by Isky -- probably in the sixties , came with some performance SP stuff out of the states decades ago. --- it aint pretty !! Small nasty lobes
All the above from my own experience or personal observation .
Because the twin cyl. cam profile works in that application it's not really applicable to the wt. and variable
loading requirements of a car. The ramps are designed for a .002 " clearance so are very different to one with .012 "ish clearances. The follower radius has a marked effect on timing and there are various versions in the triumph range . The Cam timing is at 20 thou lift compared to actual opening in the SP spec. so there is some timing to be added there as well. IF you can track down a cam you'll see the opening acceleration is much greater than an old valve train might like. The Triumph included valve angle is different ,therefore the pocket clearances in the High compression triumph pistons can be tight when used in an SP with a high lift cam ( best to check this with putty)
The lift at follower is listed as .314 "on the spec sheet so this gives .421" at the Sp valve stem . The rockers are on quite an angle at this lift ( dummy up a block and head and all is revealed )
To get this as a regrind leaves a very much reduced base circle . Not a pretty thing when you see how much the core ( between the lobes ) has to be further reduced to clear the followers.
At 100.5 degrees c/l setting its not looking good for a street car.
I have a cam ground by Isky -- probably in the sixties , came with some performance SP stuff out of the states decades ago. --- it aint pretty !! Small nasty lobes
All the above from my own experience or personal observation .
Re: improved cam grinds for V8 2 1/2 litre...
Steve, good information, for which i am most grateful.
I did manage to speak with Steve Sannet @Penta motorsports today ..he essentially changes the majority of the valve train.. with a billet cam and modified chest to take mushroom style lifters , which is definately the way to go.. had had a batch of Billet cams made and is selling them with grind to customer specs..about 1/2 the original batch sold at this point.. so things are looking up.. He also stated that a 1" addition to stroke is possible and they have done this with a billet crank and bespoke rods and pistons.... this gives close to 3.5 litres of displacement which is really close to ideal .. no substitute for CCs.. more is betta !
I did manage to speak with Steve Sannet @Penta motorsports today ..he essentially changes the majority of the valve train.. with a billet cam and modified chest to take mushroom style lifters , which is definately the way to go.. had had a batch of Billet cams made and is selling them with grind to customer specs..about 1/2 the original batch sold at this point.. so things are looking up.. He also stated that a 1" addition to stroke is possible and they have done this with a billet crank and bespoke rods and pistons.... this gives close to 3.5 litres of displacement which is really close to ideal .. no substitute for CCs.. more is betta !