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rack and pinion conversion .

TWF
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:10 pm
Location: Liverpool

rack and pinion conversion .

Post by TWF »

Hi , as I intend to remove the engine from my SP in the near future , it may also be the right time to improve the steering , I have a steering column / box that I have re bushed and re sealed with the intention of fitting it but am wondering whether I should go for R&P, now that AUTOTEC seem to have gone ,who would supply the best kit and roughly what would be the cost ? also having not driven a Dart with R&P , does the conversion make the steering light in comparison to the steering box or just make it more positive? Regards ,Terry.

Ian Slade
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Ian Slade »

It can make it light at rest at slow speed but it is heavier above 30mph, one has yo be careful with the rack as some can increase the turns lock to lock, with standard steering the lock to lock is ideal should you get a sudden oversteer in the wet.
Owner since the 70's, Genghis is slightly to my left.

Sydsmith
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Sydsmith »

Now that's a can of worms you have opened up Terry and I have no doubt you will get conflicting advice from members of the forum.

Your problem also takes in the question of MOT exemption, as the conversion is without doubt a major change to the car but could be claimed to be a safety improvement.

My car has always had R&P steering so I am no help to you regarding the difference.

I can say my R&P steering is fine and what ever the benefits or otherwise I am happy with it. I have the steering stops set up to prevent the over steer Ian describes and I am told that R&P mainly improves the accuracy of the steering and keeps the car on line much better than the old system.

For my part I have the option of changing back as I have an original column and fittings, but I am doubtful about the safety of the old column, it is situated very close to the front end and in a head on it will only go in one direction, straight into my chest.

On those grounds I have declared my car VHI and therefor MOT exempt and we shall see if that is legal or not when it is tested in law. Syd

Ian Slade
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Ian Slade »

The lock stops just do that, it doesn't help applying a large degree of opposite lock when the proverbial happens if the gearing is lower, with standard steering you can apply considerable degrees without the hands leaving the wheel. I suppose it may well feel more positive as the rubber joints are missing from the steering therefore you would feel more movement of the wheel from the road surface. Safety wise there is no difference, the end of the column is below any object in a collision except walls and snow ploughs, the first part of the SP that would be moved in a frontal collision is the engine and front suspension turrets.
Owner since the 70's, Genghis is slightly to my left.

David S
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:23 am
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by David S »

The greater number of steering wheel turns from lock to lock will give lighter steering: This is one reason why many have converted to R&P.
There are a few different ratios on various Triumph racks that people have used, all give different number of steering wheel turns from lock to lock.
There's the TR series; Herald/Vitesse; Spitfire/GT6; etc.
Some like R&P for its drivability; some like original set up for its originality; some put on R&P for replacing worn parts economically; some think the original set up retains the car's value; some like lighter steering ....... and so on.
In line with your initial question - the answer is debatable so you have to choose if you want to use the car on today's roads or keep it as a historic show car. Are you doing it to sell or to use? i.e. are you doing it for yourself or others?
I have R&P and never had, or driven, a car with the original set up. But I like my R&P set-up now that I have it set up really nicely.
I also have a 5 speed gearbox and servo brakes; I have not self certified for MOT - yet, but I will probably do so on the same grounds as SydSmith [above] for steering and parts availability re gearbox and safety for brakes.
There's no hurry to do that though as I think an MOT is worthwhile for safety and security as I use the car on fast roads........ I'm off to Le Mans in a few days in it. Should there be any incident I have a certificate to prove the car was roadworthy on the day of the MOT!

Sydsmith
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Sydsmith »

Terry, there is one other thing that we have not touched on, the loss of the adjustable steering column and the difficulty of sorting self cancelling indicators, when you convert to R&P.

Some very clever people have overcome the problems and that would certainly be worth chasing up.

I don't have a real problem with the position of the wheel, so the loss of the adjustable column is not too much of an issue, but the loss of self cancelling indicators is something that I would love to be able to sort.

It is so easy to leave an indicator flashing and to get into trouble at the next junction. Syd

Vortex O'Plinth
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Vortex O'Plinth »

Sydsmith wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:33 pm Terry, there is one other thing that we have not touched on, the loss of the adjustable steering column and the difficulty of sorting self cancelling indicators, when you convert to R&P.

Some very clever people have overcome the problems and that would certainly be worth chasing up.

I don't have a real problem with the position of the wheel, so the loss of the adjustable column is not too much of an issue, but the loss of self cancelling indicators is something that I would love to be able to sort.

It is so easy to leave an indicator flashing and to get into trouble at the next junction. Syd
I guess you are referring to the loss of the original steering wheel boss mounted indicator control resulting from R&P conversion Syd?
Going the Triumph R&P route - including a Triumph steering column - gives self cancelling indicators, albeit at the cost of a somewhat anachronistic column 'stalk'. Using the Triumph column also allows you to shift the headlamp dip switch to another stalk with the added bonus of a headlamp 'flash' facility. It's worth noting that the Triumph column is also adjustable, although not as easily as the original SP set-up.

Of course these mods result in a visible change to the original appearance. Retaining the original wheel, horn push and indicator switching after an R&P mod can be done, but it's not a simple task.

My R&P conversion is the 'full Triumph' with two column stalks and a Moto-Lita wheel...
1-P1320018.JPG
The stalks are very functional but do obscure parts of the Speedo and rev counter. Another downside is that the Triumph 'binnacle' restricts how close the wheel can be mounted to the dash - a problem perhaps for shorter drivers.
Nick

"Don't bother with the Air & Space Museum - there's nothing to see.......".

Sydsmith
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Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by Sydsmith »

Good points Nick and ties up with what I thought was the case, I know Wilf Stevens had solved some of the problems.

I am not certain which rack I have got, the car was converted when I bought it 10 years ago, using the original steering wheel and boss and in fact the adjustable bit is still attached as is the central horn and indicator switch, Sadly neither work and I have a separate horn button and indicator switch on the right of the wheel on the dash panel, which as I say is a pain.

silverdart
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Location: West Midlands

Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by silverdart »

I have two Darts both with original steering setup.

My original one has standard steel wheels and the steering is fine in every respect, perhaps slightly heavier when parking.

My modified one has 6.5 inch wide magnesium alloy wheels and is o.k. when driving and quite heavy when parking.

I love the fact that the horn and the indicators are where they should be and I think the difference in the feel of the steering to a modern

car, just serves to remind me that I am in a classic and need to take extra care.

Dave.


]

TWF
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:10 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: rack and pinion conversion .

Post by TWF »

Hi ,thank you for your advise ,opinions and preferences which are all very much appreciated ,Regards ,Terry .

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