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Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

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sherlock
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Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by sherlock »

Hello

Today, I saved from scrapping a Daimler 420, for pocket money. The late owner had several vintage cars, popular French classics, Peugeot 403 and 404 saloons, Citroen 2 cv, and several Jaguar and Daimler.

He passed away two years ago, and his son was dreaming about the treasures sleeping in his barn. To make a long story short, after one year, he accepts my bucks for the 420, and he gives me a Jaguar XJ6 serie II.

No keys, no "carte grise" (the French V5)... I shall check the 420 and if the old girl is good enough to be saved, I search someone to restore it. I have too many projects in my barns :)

If my post is not in the right forum, please feel free to move it !
The attachment daimler420-01.jpg is no longer available
daimler420-01.jpg
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I am a froggy, nobody is perfect

1934 BSA three wheeler - 1968 Daimler 250 V8 - 1993 Daimler XJ40 Majestic LWB
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Sydsmith
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by Sydsmith »

Pardon my ignorance if I am wrong Sherlock, but that looks like a Sovereign and not a DS420?

A really nice design and increasing in value all the time.

Not sure but was this the last Daimler with a Jaguar straight six?

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sherlock
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by sherlock »

Of course yes, it's a Sovereign. In France, this car is sometime called a Daimler 420.

It's the first Daimler without a Daimler engine, you mean to say :D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am a froggy, nobody is perfect

1934 BSA three wheeler - 1968 Daimler 250 V8 - 1993 Daimler XJ40 Majestic LWB
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Sydsmith
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by Sydsmith »

After I read the thread again Sherlock I realised what we were looking at might have been the Jaguar.

Funny how ones tastes change over the years, I was not a great fan of the changes they made to the Mk2 styling to bring it up to date back then, but as time has passed I now think the XJ series are nicely styled cars.

It was a great pity Jaguar ditched the Turner V8, with more development it would have been a world beating engine. It was I think a very much better engine than the troublesome lump Jaguar developed to replace the XK engine. Syd

Christopher Storey
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by Christopher Storey »

Syd : the XJ6/12 had nothing to do with being a successor to the mark 2 ; it was a replacement for the entire saloon line up . I think you are remembering the progression from mark 2 to S type to 420/Sovereign all of which involved variations on the mark 2 theme

I think I must take issue with you on the Turner V8. Although I love the refinement of mine , it is sadly not a very good bottom end design, with the main bearing area being insufficient and the bottom end not really being stiff enough, hence the cracked main caps we see . I also recall ( although I am going back 50 years ) that even in the 60s bearing failure on the V8s ( and certainly bottom end knock ) was something we regularly got complaints about when I was a director of a dealership

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sherlock
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by sherlock »

IMHO the 420/soverign is an interesting and rare car, but it's a pity the famous XK engine replaced the Turner's engine... Even this engine was not perfect, it deserved a better fate.

I have no idea if my sovereign was French or British registered, because the papers are lost and the plates disappear. Do you know if it is possible to found the registration in UK from the chassis number?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am a froggy, nobody is perfect

1934 BSA three wheeler - 1968 Daimler 250 V8 - 1993 Daimler XJ40 Majestic LWB
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tjt77
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by tjt77 »

My comment is that the 420s were never very popular, but are really fine driving cars...much more 'refined' than the MK2 which they essentially sprang from..the ride quality, is well above that of contemporary cars and they are also quiet inside and waft along very nicely with more than adequate performance.. the downside is they are rather more complicated, with lots of electrical relays and odd electro/mechanical switches of dubious reliability.. in a ploy to resolve the long standing issue of overheating in hotter climates the radiator capacity was increased significantly for the 420 V the S type .. the daimler versions are also less common than the jaguar and tend to be in better shape overall..( likely Daimler buyers took better care of their cars) as for the ongoing debate over the turner V8.. due to small displacement in a heavy car, it had to work hard in the saloons.. the reason the 3.8 jaguar motor was phased out and replaced by the 4.2 was to gain more power and thereby keep up with the competition (specifically.. much more lower and mid range torque was produced by the 4.2) the Turner V8 had its many flaws and it was simply not practical to continue production..a 1950s design that had ran its course.. to make it viable would have required a major re-deisgn to overcome its well known 'issues' and and appropriate increase in capacity in order to produce sufficient power would have been necessary .. jaguar started to develop a 'new' v8 from scratch in the 60s, but had numerous issues with harmonic vibrations with their own design..hence, due to budget restraints in a company that was no longer profitable, its was 'shelved', and the old inline 6, stretched in capacity as far as was possible, continued well past its sell by date.. the Jaguar inline 6 was a very advanced engine in 1948 ..by 1970 its was essentially obsolete.. but it continued in production anther 18 yrs.. the turner V8 was a perfect engine for the low budget and relatively light SP250 in 1959.. its turbine like smoothness and the V8 burble won over many people..but it always had shortcomings when fitted in a heaver saloon.. which magnified its many weaknesses..

Ian Slade
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by Ian Slade »

Yes, but there was no reason to put a 250 v8 in any Jaguar the 4.5 v8 was the engine to go for and de-stroke it to 3.5 litres for a smaller engine. By the time the XJ6 and V12 versions came out the body was too heavy for a 2.5 anything and the 2.8 XJ engine really an XK engine with knobs on had problems with rice puddings in that body.
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Sydsmith
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by Sydsmith »

Chris, as you say the XJ series was a big departure from what has been a series of adjustments to the very popular original MK1 design concept in more ways than just body styling.

I still think Jaguar missed a trick when they abandoned the Turner design, it was abandoned before it had been given a chance to develop into what could have been a very reliable unit, a 3.5 Ltr unit, with a re-designed bottom end, would have taken some beating, light smooth and cheap to produce.

Despite its design weaknesses and we all know what they are, the engine will go on working almost until all the bits fall off.

I remember a member posting on the old forum, reported driving a newly purchased SP several hundred miles home with a nasty rattle in the engine. When he stripped the engine there was a nest of horrors with main shells having turned round in pairs under the crank and all the big end shells down to the copper backing, yet it still showed oil pressure.

tjt77
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Re: Another Daimler ? No sh.t Sherlock !

Post by tjt77 »

reply to Sherlock re reg numbers... often (but not always) the the info for original owners name and reg number issued is in the JDHT records.. a 'heritage certificate' might be helpful in any case when papers are lost..you may luck out if it was sold by one of the larger dealerships that had good communication with manufacturer...

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