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Overdrive problem

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Alpine Daimler
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:17 pm
Location: A tad west of Hamburg on the Elbe River

Overdrive problem

Post by Alpine Daimler »

Hello everyone.

May I raise the subject of overdrive oil once again?

Just completed gearbox and overdrive oil change, also overdrive filter removed and cleaned, all ok. Now overdrive no longer operates, solenoid can be heard to operate or "clack". The oil used to top up was Castol EP 90 as specified in manual (replacement for Castrol Hypoy) ...any ideas? Solenoid requires adjustment? Worked fine for years before oil change, unfortunately due to work commitments and the fact that the car lift in our workshop was occupied I had this job done for me which means I could not compare what came out with what went in, pity. Have read somewhere some owners use SAE 30 oil in their O/D boxes! A few oil drips more from gearbox, not sure yet from where, I also have now aquired!

Regards

Rob C.

Warsash 2
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:53 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Warsash 2 »

Hi
In Margaret' SP the recomemdations are SAE 30 and the gearbox need to be filled between 12 & 18 mm above the top full level. As your car is too early to have a manual with overdrive from the factory, it is a later addition. Do you know what the gearbox is from? If you know that then it may be worth refering to the workshop manual for that model.
Regards

Colin

A.N.Other
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Location: Leeds

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by A.N.Other »

With the oil, I was advised to put half as much again in, so 1 pint became 1.5 pints.
I am referring to the Laycock J type.
The grade of oil should be as the gearbox.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

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Jez
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:00 am

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Jez »

I was advised to use SAE30 (or regular 20/50 multigrade) in the J-type overdrive, filled to half an inch above the normal max mark to ensure oil flows into the retrofitted overdrive section of the gearbox.
The clicking noise you hear is the actuating solenoid so the electrics seem fine. I believe there is an adjustment on the solenoid (certainly is on some, can't remember 100% on the J-type) but sounds most likely that either there's insufficient oil or its too thick for the gearbox oil pump to work effectively.

Cheers - Jez
Jez Stow
1960 Daimler Dart
and a few other toys

Christopher Storey
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Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:40 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Christopher Storey »

Warsash 2 wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:39 pm Hi
In Margaret' SP the recomemdations are SAE 30 and the gearbox need to be filled between 12 & 18 mm above the top full level. As your car is too early to have a manual with overdrive from the factory, it is a later addition.

Colin
I think Colin is mistaken. I seem to remember that your car, like mine, is one of the very small number of Mark 2 as opposed to 250 that were produced with the Jaguar all-synchro box and overdrive at the very end of the Mark 2 run in 1967 . The chassis number ends with DN if this is the case . This has the compact A type overdrive . The gearbox and the overdrive are thus both quite different from that in the SP , which runs on 30 oil , and as far as I am aware EP 90 is the correct lubricant for the all synchro setup

Paul Edginton
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:56 am

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Paul Edginton »

I have the same car and have 80/90 oil in it and have had no problems. As you have only changed the oil and cleaned the filter you would expect the problem to be with not enough oil pressure. So check the oil level and make sure that the solenoid is adjusted as per the manual. You can have the click of the solenoid working but if the rod is not adjusted as per the specs the valve to direct the oil under pressure to operate the gears will not open.
Good luck
Paul

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Alpine Daimler
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:17 pm
Location: A tad west of Hamburg on the Elbe River

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Alpine Daimler »

Hello again

Thank you for your replies, Your efforts, opinions and above your time are appreciated.

I can confirm that I have the Laycock type "A" overdrive. The manual, "Overdrive Repairs" of Sheffield run by former Laycock employees and a number of other sites of repute (my opinion) confirm EP 90 as the correct oil and that I have used as top up during my ownership. As my O/D worked fine for years before oil change I shall be checking the solenoid adjustment although I am sceptical as that is the cause of the current challenge. No, I suspect the draining of oil has dislodged muck, small debris or similar and that has comprimised the integrity of operation of operating plunger, ball valve and seat, these appear to be removable and their cleanliness possible to check if I have read and understood the manual correctly. If work, garden, house, dog and shopping commitments allow I shall get stuck in this weekend, I'll let you know how I get on! Regards Rob C.

PS : I should add that during a trip out on Sunday last just west of Munich to the "Fürstenfeld Oldtimertage" the Daimler ran beautifully, I even drove about 50 kms extra just for the fun of it, I did miss the overdrive though,gravely, but let the V8 have its "Reins" to about 3000rpm + on the Autobahn , it was a delight.

kent sutton
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:15 pm
Location: Townsville QLD

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by kent sutton »

Hi Rob
I have fitted an A type o/d to my SP from Jag Mk 2. The very knowledgeable breaker from whom I purchased it advised to use engine oil as the heavy EP oils do not flow due to lack of viscosity (both cold & hot). This can cause clutch drag and the clutch to actually to wear. He showed me one thus with the clutch lining worn down and grooved by the attaching rivets.
To address your problem I would suggest drain the g/box oil and refill with engine oil. If it worked beforehand there should of course be no need to adjust the lift of the operating valve. This is situated under a plug on the right hand side of the o/d unit. To check if the oil pump is working you can undo this plug, remove ball bearing spring & plunger, drive the car and watch if any oil appears to come from the opening.
How you will achieve this in your car I do not know unless you have a hole in the floor at the appropriate place!!!!! To do this check it merely requires the car to be in gear and moving, even quite slowly so putting the car on stands, starting engaging gear is all that should be required. A lot of messing around not to mention dangerous!!!
So change the oil as a 1st step!!!!
Kent

Christopher Storey
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Location: Cheshire

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by Christopher Storey »

Please, please, do not follow the advice to use engine oil. That might not harm the OD unit , but it is most definitely the wrong oil for the Jaguar all synchro box . The Moss box in an SP 250 may be alright on 30, but the Jaguar box , which is pressure fed at about 5 psi from an internal oil pump , may well be damaged by 30 or any similar oil . If the manual specifies EP, which it does , then it is wise to follow the manufacturer's specs

Incidentally, if you still have the ammeter , an initial check which is worth making is to operate the OD switch with top gear engaged but the engine off. If the solenoid is correctly adjusted, you should see an initial very short flick to about 15 amps followed by a return to perhaps 2 amp discharge. If it stays at 15 amp discharge, then the solenoid is still using the initial "draw in " current and is not reaching the "hold in" position which only uses about 1 amp

kent sutton
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:15 pm
Location: Townsville QLD

Re: Overdrive problem

Post by kent sutton »

The g/box in the SP is Triumph TR2-3 based and engine oil is the correct oil for this combination.
I am not sure what g/box is in the 2 1/2 litre saloon, the Moss box or the new all synchro box? My comments on the Jaguar box relate to the Moss box.
Would suggest refer the car's manual.
Kent

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