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V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

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classiclife
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
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V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by classiclife » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:28 pm

Hello,

I'm in the process of converting my Daimler from auto to manual and as such the pedal box configuration requires changing as well.

I do have 2x spare manual pedal boxes with brake & clutch pedal - thus, that part is covered.

Looking at the pedal box mounting plate mounted on the bulkhead, I wonder if it is possible to leave that in situ and change the auto pedal to a manual pedal without having to disassemble the whole unit which of course would require the brake hydraulics being disturbed.

If the swap-over can be done in situ, then I presume it must also be possible to fit the clutch pedal with the mounting plate still in situ ??

Any advice / views gratefully received.

Thank you.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

classiclife
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
Contact:

Re: V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by classiclife » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:14 pm

Hello,

I've partly answered my question today.

The current auto pedal box does not have the facility to fit a clutch pedal as there is no pivot pin.

That means the current pedal box needs to be removed completely.................. now for my next question !!

Having yet to unbolt the pedal box, can the pedal box be removed as a complete unit with the auto brake pedal attached and if so, can the manual pedal box be fitted as a complete unit through the bulk ??

My suspicion is that as you see pedal boxes for sale as complete units, this tends to indicate that the assembly can be removed as a complete unit. Purely my guess work.

Any confirmation, most welcome !!

Many thanks.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

classiclife
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
Contact:

Re: V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by classiclife » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:19 pm

Hello,

I'm pleased to report that the auto to manual pedal box is complete and although unlikely to be of interest to many others, the following is worthy of note should someone wish to do the same on doing a manual transmission conversion.

1- the 7x nuts are easily accessible underneath the pedal box, with the auto and manual pedal housings being identical.

2- a good soak of Plus Gas will aid removal of the nuts, it was also the case that a couple of studs unscrewed from the housing. This was resolved once the box was on the work bench and they were refitted.

3- the square plate holding the rubber brake pad needs to be unbolted, otherwise the unit cannot be removed through the bulkhead.

4- the brake master cylinder can be detached from the pedal box housing WITHOUT the necessity of draining the fluid. This is, in part, due to the rubber pipe between the master cylinder and brake fluid reservoir. There is sufficient slack to pull the master cylinder clear of the housing once the pivot pin has been detached from the cylinder push rod and the pedal.

5- with the master cylinder out of the way, the pedal box assembly can be withdrawn from the bulkhead.

6- refitting with the manual pedal box is a reverse of the above, but you will need to make a new seating gasket between the housing and bulkhead. These are no longer available to purchase so I understand.

7- once the pedal box housing is bolted in, you can then refit the brake m/c (still intact and no loss of fluid !!) and then fit the new clutch m/c in to position.

8- 99% of the nuts are dealt with by a 1/2" combo spanner.

Hope the above is of assistance to someone at some stage.

Regards.

Richard.
Last edited by classiclife on Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

Fossil
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: Helensburgh, Argyll

Re: V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by Fossil » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:40 pm

Hi Richard

Yes, it is certainly of assistance, thank you. I am about to replace both master cylinders and I need to give some attention to the pedals themselves, so what you describe is extremely helpful. It will be much simpler with the pedal box out and on the bench, thanks.

It actually involves the brake and clutch systems on my SP"450", which may sound a little strange given that these master cylinders are vertical and not horizontal as in a std SP. However the brakes and clutch on the car are entirely Jaguar Mk II in origin, so I assume that 'The Creator' of the machine (not me!) had good reason to use matching m/cyls. The driver's footwell has been completely refashioned, and sufficient clearance has been allowed to fit the cylinders without impeding closure of the bonnet. I look forward to brakes that function better than before, since I've already replaced all 4 calipers and the servo with new units, this is the last lap!

Thanks again.

Best regards

Fossil

tjt77
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:01 pm

Re: V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by tjt77 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:50 pm

pedal boxes are same for RHD and LHD cars.. the early ones on jaguars (up to approx '1966 model year) also have exact same operating arms as manual cars, which are adjoined by one large plate which bolts to ends of operating arms and serves as brake pedal...(essentially the clutch arm serves as a 'dummy')
Yes you can leave brake master cylinder connected to pipes and remove pedal box should you desire to do so..
All that is needed to add a clutch M/cylinder to an early pedal box is :- the clutch master cylinder..the clutch master cylinder mountings studs, nuts and washers .. the clevis pin, washer and spilt pin.. and the actual clutch pedal ..
In practice you can remove the long auto brake pedal, cut it into 2 pieces and shape each piece to same profile as std manual pedals (helps to have an original manual pedal to use as a pattern ..but you can also use the rubber pad to determine pedal profile) and then fit ( glue on) the rubber pads..
procedure :- remove the clutch master cylinder blanking plate.( 2 x 5/16 short studs secure it..1/2" socket size for the nuts ) . remove the brake pedal that spans both operating arms.... remove the studs for blanking plate and replace them with correct length ones to mount master cylinder ( you can also use 2 x 1/16 NC bolts as an alternative) ease clutch master cylinder into place and add the retaining nuts and washers ( dont fully tighten until pedal is connected to operating arm) .. fit the clevis pin and its hardware to connect to pedal arm .. bolt in the correct pedals to operating arms..cinch up all hardware..job done..


Later cars ( post '66..so definitely ALL V8 250 saloons) with single brake operating arm, require the correct clutch operating arm, (and possibly a different brake arm as well ) its return spring and other associated hardware ..to fit this its easier to remove the pedal box and do it on the bench, rather than in situ..
if you have a post '66 car and are converting it to manual , the wise choice would be to have a complete manual pedal box assy on hand.
BTW.. S type and 420 jaguar/daimler sovereign pedal boxes are same as those used on Mk2 and V8 2 1/2/ V8 250.. but the 420 with auto will have single brake operating rod ( and a narrower brake pedal then earlier cars)

classiclife
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
Contact:

Re: V8-250 Saloon: Pedal Box

Post by classiclife » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Hello Fossil,

Glad to hear it is of assistance - it was all pretty straight forward.

I was lucky enough to pick-up 2x complete late manual pedal boxes for my conversion via the Jaguar Spares Day earlier in the year. The other manual assembly is now spare along with the removed auto pedal box.

You will certainly need to take the actual "rubber" pedals off as it is not possible to remove the pedal box assembly through the bulkhead with those still attached. Worth pointing out that there is a very small indent on the "rubber" pedal to ensure it locates correctly when finally tightening up.

I can confirm the pedal box gaskets are not available or more to the point I could not find an outlet. It was easy to remove and from there I made a new gasket with the outline of the old one.

And of course you have the extra benefit of tjt77 adding his knowledge to your enquiry, which is very useful indeed. I have certainly benefitted & found his help invaluable with various tasks over the time.

Regards.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

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