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Re building an engine

Warsash 2
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:53 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Re building an engine

Post by Warsash 2 »

Hi
I do not think so mine came with an auto gearbox but no torque converter Back plate or flywheel. I bought it from Wales
Regards

Colin

chrismpw
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:22 pm
Location: cricklade UK

Re: Re building an engine

Post by chrismpw »

Bullet bit ..... started taking the engine out today. Bottom end rebuild is the plan. New main bearings, crankshaft regrind etc.

Seems the main bearings should be replaced in the 46k mile service. I'm guessing this has never been done.

So far so good - only 1 exhaust flange stud sheared (fresh how inaccessible are these on the drivers side!).

Most rebuild places snd specialists 'just want the engine'. Strikes me that just taking out and handing them the engine is the hard part. If I'm going to have to go to the trouble of doing this I may as well do the whole lot, and just pay for the grinding.

chrismpw
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:22 pm
Location: cricklade UK

Re: Re building an engine

Post by chrismpw »

So here we go.

The engine is out and dangling by a piece of string in my garage 8) . It wasn't without eventfulness - the torque converter didn't stay nicely where it should have in the bell housing, necessitating the rempoval of the fan at the last minute to get enough clearance. Then the engine crane didn't go high enough to clear the radiator cowl, necessitating the missus and a neighbour having to kneel on the bumper while I pushed the car back while simultaneously tilting the sump past the cowl. Exciting stuff.

Shortly the magnificent lump will be taken off to the engineers. I am holding out for original vanderveld bearings to be fitted - but so far have only found 1 potential stockist (who is coy on prices). Most of the usual suppliers offer 'unbranded' bearings - no thanks.

I'm now after opinions on "Country" and "King" brand bearings - good or bad experiences, or any other brands that people could recommend.

Thanks in anticipation.

KV8
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Re building an engine

Post by KV8 »

chrismpw wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:52 pm Shortly the magnificent lump will be taken off to the engineers. I am holding out for original vanderveld bearings to be fitted - but so far have only found 1 potential stockist (who is coy on prices). Most of the usual suppliers offer 'unbranded' bearings - no thanks.

I'm now after opinions on "Country" and "King" brand bearings - good or bad experiences, or any other brands that people could recommend.

Thanks in anticipation.
Sorry getting a bit confused? Rather than overhauling the engine yourself you are now saying it is off to the engineers. Which engineers?

If you are paying for a rebuild then why not use one of the specialists advertised in "the Driving Member" each month. These guys do a remarkable job as they are very familiar with this engine. I used Russ Carpenter. Whilst i do not think that Vandervell bearings are still around they will use the best available based on years of experience.

H

chrismpw
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:22 pm
Location: cricklade UK

Re: Re building an engine

Post by chrismpw »

I've considered doing it myself, but have narrowed it down to using a specialist local to me. I contacted Russ who seems an absolute giant in the field, very approachable and was full of useful advice. He would be my number 1 choice but sadly though he couldn't fit me in until late next year, such is his popularity.

fredeuce
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:56 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Re building an engine

Post by fredeuce »

KV8 wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:02 pm
chrismpw wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:52 pm Shortly the magnificent lump will be taken off to the engineers. I am holding out for original vanderveld bearings to be fitted - but so far have only found 1 potential stockist (who is coy on prices). Most of the usual suppliers offer 'unbranded' bearings - no thanks.

I'm now after opinions on "Country" and "King" brand bearings - good or bad experiences, or any other brands that people could recommend.

Thanks in anticipation.
Sorry getting a bit confused? Rather than overhauling the engine yourself you are now saying it is off to the engineers. Which engineers?

If you are paying for a rebuild then why not use one of the specialists advertised in "the Driving Member" each month. These guys do a remarkable job as they are very familiar with this engine. I used Russ Carpenter. Whilst i do not think that Vandervell bearings are still around they will use the best available based on years of experience.

H
I am rebuilding my engine at present with an overbore , new pistons and fresh bearings. I have purchased from a local specialist Jag/Daimler supplier here in Australia a set of King bearings. See pics below.

They are a USA based manufacturer. They also have a useful webpage with quite a lot of tech data regarding the materials used .

That said it would be great if someone with first hand experience with this brand for the Daimler could provide a review.


Image

Image

Image

Ian Slade
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:54 am
Location: Sevilla Spain

Re: Re building an engine

Post by Ian Slade »

With all due respect to Russ who does an excellent job on rebuilds but any competent mechanic either professional or amatuer can rebuild the engine especially if cost is no object. Regrind and rebore or sleeve can be carried out by any good engineering workshop, you can purchase pistons and rings from either Barry Thorne or DM ltd, the trick is to thoroughly check the dimensions of everything according to the workshop manual, with a chemical balance you can balance all the new components before and after assembling i.e pistons and rods.
Whether you need the modifications Russ has produced is moot, much depends on use, the front and rear seals are nice but not essential, the main bearing modifications are probably a good idea if you use the engine, but if you never rev above 4000 rpm then maybe not needed. I never had any main bearing or housing problems despite revving over 6000 rpm on a regular basis in both my cars, though possibly over the years if this continued I may have had problems, everthing has a life expectancy and possibly over 60 years they may need help.
To rebuild successfully you need time and care, both are labour intensive, if you have the skill, time and patience you can carry out a good rebuild, if you haven't go see Russ or another engine builder, the racing world is full of engine builders that are very good, the classic car scene has many cowboys.
Owner since the 70's, Genghis is slightly to my left.

Sydsmith
Extremely Wise Man
Extremely Wise Man
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Re building an engine

Post by Sydsmith »

I have a V8 250 manual fitted with a Russ Carpenter engine and an SP250 with an ageing original engine.

The SP leaked oil all over the place when I got it and I have cured all the top end leaks, however the front and rear oil seals on the crank leak and is a pain, the V8 however is bone dry.

If and when I rebuild the SP engine I will certainly have the Russ Carpenter crank seal mod done if nothing else. Syd

tjt77
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:01 pm

Re: Re building an engine

Post by tjt77 »

On bearings (caveat..I have not read the full extent of comments on this thread) the original Vandervell VP2 had load bearing capacity of 12,000 psi.. furthermore the lead indium outer layer is soft and as a consequence, easy on journals ( if replaced when less than .0015" wear present in bearing shell..ie..just showing traces of the copper underlay..most likely the crank will NOT require to be turned to next undersize and a light polish will suffice)
Most reticular tin alloy (Bi metal) are designed to hold up to 5,000 psi.. under half the original load capacity.. furthermore the hard surface tends to wear the crank at similar rate to bearing shell..

As its stands currently :- King now produce 'tri metal' con rod bearings ..but only supply bi metal mains. most traditional suppliers have the King tri metal rod bearings available
Unfortunately the intermediate mains are the first casualty in the V8 saolons.. should be replaced by +/-60k miles depending on how the car is used/serviced/driven.
several known UK suppliers still have a few sets of OEM Vandrvell and also some 'aftermarket' tri metal main bearings in various undersizes..
the reticular tin alloy bearings are commonly marked 'SA' whilst tri metal or 'lead copper' bearing are marked 'LC'
alternative suppliers for 'LC' main bearings :- Glacier and Peter Hepworth.. (caveat..Glaciers main market 'back in the day' was in undercutting vandrvell with cheapo bi metal replacement bearings.. so make sure both box and bearings themselves are stamped 'LC')
if cost is not a huge issue, you can have a machinist modify (narrow down) the main bearings in suitable undersize from a BMC 'A plus' 1275cc engine (these are available in heavy duty tri metal format..Mahle Motrosports now own Vandervell, have re-opened production and produce high quality bearings for the vintage race fraternity... but the standard BL one should be tri metal and suffice as a significant improvement over the bi metals from King ) and use the in the intermediate and centre positions which are the most vulnerable to rapid wear.. the king bi metals will hold up fine in front and rear positions..
Also importantly:- you can extend engine life significantly by carefully balancing the reciprocating parts.. the con rods often vary in weight quite significantly.. especially so in later ('post '67) engines ... likely due to attempts to combat operating losses within Jaguar/Daimler after the BMC/ BL takeover by doing it cheaper ..

daimlersteve
Helpful Person
Helpful Person
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:20 am

Re: Re building an engine

Post by daimlersteve »

Tj,
re the above entry, spot on with analysis . Couldnt have penned it better ( and wouldn't have taken the time to do so ). Machining of 'A Series mains is a time consuming process but if anyone wants to go down this road , call me for the efficient way to setup .
regards to all, Steve.

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