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SP450

dansdaimler
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:18 pm
Location: France (53)/USA (L.A.)

Re: SP450

Post by dansdaimler »

Has anyone made a 4.5 (or 2.5) into a dry sump? Seems to me that reducing the depth of the oil pan could be easier then major chassis surgery.
I admit that I have no personal knowledge regarding converting over to dry sump but I did work on vintage triumph systems years ago.
Daniel
1962 Daimler SP250

Ian Slade
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Posts: 791
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:54 am
Location: Sevilla Spain

Re: SP450

Post by Ian Slade »

There are plenty of dry sump kits on the market for V8's, the main cost would be manufacturing the sump, if you're good with a TIG or MIG welder it may not be that difficult.
Regarding handling, it won't. the SP handles like a drunken trolley bus when pushed, it starts with understeer, as lock is increased the inner rear wheel lifts and loses drive and you are in a sort of unstable three and half wheel drift, requiring lifting off of the power to put the wheel down to regain drive, along with this there is a 10deg twist in the chassis towards the offside of the bend from the rear.
If I was to fit a 450 engine I would go down a different path, Cover your car in release agent and make a mould of the outer body, make a new outer body, cut it down the middle and insert a 300mm spacer faired to the contours. Spend some time touring recycling centres for front and rear subframes with known good front and IRS complete with diffs, Jaguar XJ or BMW 7 series, connect the two together with various diameter tubes to obtain the original wheel base.
That may sound like hard work but could produce a better car with less problems and you haven't butchered a decent SP, The Cobra 7 litre may have started it's life as a AC Ace with drum brakes and transverse springs, by the time it was a Cobra either 289 or 427 the only thing common was the look of the tubular chassis, a similar body but flared to a greater width and the original dash, it still didn't handle
Owner since the 70's, Genghis is slightly to my left.

daimlersteve
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Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:20 am

Re: SP450

Post by daimlersteve »

Now there's a thought Ian !!!
With the lack of modern rubber in 15" for the project car i've invested in a set of cheap alloys and fitted up a set of 205 . 55. 16 michelin ps3s. good wet tyre so should be interesting. May have to back off the shocks a tad for the ride . If the weather changes ( for the better)in the next couple of days i'll have it out on the road and assess the change from the michelin xm2s.
Just made up a s/steel fuel tank for a local club member along with a set of kit parts for a sway bar and rack conversion

The third SP is about to be picked up from the upholsterers this week if all goes to plan , so there's a bit of fitting up on the body trim to keep me busy indoors out of the rain.

steve

JDB
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:35 am

Re: SP450

Post by JDB »

You could always put the 4.5 engine where it belongs, in a Majestic Major!
JB

Fossil
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Posts: 516
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: Helensburgh, Argyll

Re: SP450

Post by Fossil »

Nick

Yes of course I've driven it! Otherwise I'd probably have given up the task of restoring it and sold it long ago. But it didn't take very long to realise that the steering was in need of urgent attention. Coincidentally it behaved rather like the MM I used to have just after I bought it, but not for the same reason. The MM wandered all over the road due to substantial wear in the king pins and steering centre arm bush, the 450 due to massive wear of the lower steering column UJs. Apart from those features it was as fast as you can imagine it to be, until uncertainty over the direction it might take combined with marked bump steer caused the right foot to ease off slightly, usually before 50 mph, which spoiled the pleasure a bit. Very rapid progress was also accompanied by an unpleasant rasp from the tailpipes, hence my suspicion that the existing silencers are not adequate. It needs a pair of back boxes (and perhaps a pair of electric cut out valves too). The brakes (Mk II Dunlop calipers) left quite a lot to be desired as well, they're being replaced with later Girling items, 420 3 pot fronts and XJ6 rears. I recall feeling that the lack of seat belts was another matter in need of early attention.

It was disappointing but not entirely surprising to find that the handling could not be explored much because of the steering issue, and I should have sorted the steering column (a Triumph 2000 lower column sleeved to extend it a few cm) and brakes first, and put it back on the road before tackling everything else, but the state of so many things was so neglected that I pressed on with more exploration while waiting for one bit or another to arrive. Less dramatic memories include the speed at which the temperature rose as soon as it stopped, requiring the mandatory switching on of fans before stopping. At rest/idle it was as quiet and almost as malevolent as a Tiger tank, but at least not as difficult to start. The most surprising finding to me then was the very smooth and light operation of the diaphragm clutch, gear change and steering (when not deciding for itself where to go) compared to the 250, which at that time was still original spec in all those departments. These findings had something to do with the decision to convert the 250 similarly when the need arose. And the whole machine felt extremely solid and rattle free, unlike some SPs. Not a surprise when you've seen the chassis, which is possibly twice the weight of the standard item.

Here endeth the recollections.

Cheers

Geoff

JDB
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:35 am

Re: SP450

Post by JDB »

That does sound a lot of fun and I'm a big fan of modified cars in general, but I wonder how many TR3 owners think their car would benefit from the addition of a 4.5l V8!

Fossil
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Location: Helensburgh, Argyll

Re: SP450

Post by Fossil »

The car that Daimler should have made for the 4.5 engine would ideally have been a Barker or Hooper style drop head coupe on the Majestic Major chassis. Total luxury and quality. There is a very rare Barker bodied drop head 3 litre car, a larger version of the Special Sports, which did see the light of day; I don't know if one still exists although I found a couple of pictures of what looked like one on the internet, I think in the US somewhere. That, or a similarly enlarged version of the KG VI Hooper bodied Special Sports DHC is what I'm thinking, on the MM chassis.

However Hooper was either closed or very close to closed when the V8 engines came along.

Another Daimler idea that I wish had come to fruition, but I've never heard discussed, is the 3 litre DOHC V8 of which blueprints exist. I have a copy of them somewhere. Wouldn't that have been a nice engine for any car?

Cheers

Geoff

JDB
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:35 am

Re: SP450

Post by JDB »

It'd make a great alternative to the Rover/Buick lump

Vortex O'Plinth
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Location: Gloucestershire

Re: SP450

Post by Vortex O'Plinth »

Geoff Douglas wrote:The car that Daimler should have made for the 4.5 engine would ideally have been a Barker or Hooper style drop head coupe on the Majestic Major chassis......

Geoff
Or maybe the car that Bristol should have made? Project heaven, the firm that helped to turn this...
Capture SP.JPG
...into this...
Capture SP2.JPG
...currently have a '66 Bristol 406 into which they're intending to install the Daimler 4.5 V8.
Capture Bristol Daimler.JPG
I'm sure it will be professionally executed and should result in an interesting 'mongrel' - a 'Bristler' perhaps?
Nick

"Don't bother with the Air & Space Museum - there's nothing to see.......".

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