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EL24 cylinderhead

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tescaparts
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by tescaparts »

Hi all,
please excuse my late comment,but i was on holiday.
Mark´s and Marcel´s comments explain all what we´ve done and the price´s justification .The main problem is and stays the low number of expected orders because of the small community of EL24 owners.

A price of 5-6k is only possible by using modern technology like 3D scan,virtuell 3D-models and 3D- sandprinting.Normally it´s much more higher!!

Some details should be added to make the project more understandable:
1.)The price is calculated of a complete production volume of 6-8 heads inc. our own.We hope we´ll reach this.As Mark mentioned earlier we have to sell 6 heads to reach break even.

2.)To build a massive patterns in the traditional way would cost about 20-30 k,too much for casting only a few heads.

3.)The only way to bring costs down is the way described above using a lot of contacts and the help of some friends.
You have to know that appr. 150 hours of reverse engeneering were needed to finish the 3D model.Again 50 hours have to be added to edit the files into a printable pattern as shown earlier.At this time you have no CNC files to machine the heads after casting....again 20-30 hours on the invoice.After all the theoretically work is done you have to cast and glue the heads,produce the plug cores ,studs and valve guides and at last you have to mill the heads.

Everybody can add all the hours and make his own thougts about the costs per hour,and after that he´ll understand the price....
Not included are all hours caused by meetings,discussions about modifications and all the the time surfing the internet,calls and mails to bring the involved people together.

If now someone says he could do it cheaper,well,in my opinon he tells fairy tails.I´m involved in these project since nearly 4 years and i never found another solution.

You can believe,that we both,John and i, are not very amused to put so much money in our cars,but for us it´s the only possibillity to bring them back to the road.With the original heart of the car.

Specially for me there was no other way to go,because the german TÜV (your MOT)and the laws don´t allow using an engine from another type of car.
All the best
Claudio

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tescaparts
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by tescaparts »

Good morning all,

next update:
The board made the decision that no financial support is available for this project!

All the best
Claudio

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theoldman
Extremely Wise Man
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Location: Bacton on Sea, Norfolk UK

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by theoldman »

tescaparts wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 am Good morning all,

next update:
The board made the decision that no financial support is available for this project!

All the best
Claudio
That's a shame. I thought they might take some cash (repayable of course) from the spares loan fund to finance this. (Reasons why not, Board members!!!)

I suppose for those who have EL24s with dodgy cylinder heads making the car a non - runner, the decision to make is that without the new head, the car really becomes a "spares car" and virtually worthless. Who would buy one knowing that it would never run as the heads are not available?

Yes, £6000 is a lot of money, but I suppose over the years I have spent many times that amount on "small" parts for the cars I have owned!!! (just last week spent £110 on the Rover for a water pump and a relay and £30 odd on bits for the Conquest - it soon adds up)

I do hope you get enough firm orders (and deposits!!) Claudio, to make this project happen.

Neil
Normal for Norfolk

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ttajf
Posts: 31
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Location: Leicestershire

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by ttajf »

Dear all.
Just to be clear, and make everyone aware about the Boards decision on the EL24 heads, here is a copy of the reply I sent to Claudio.
Please be aware that there has only been an indication of approximately 6-8 heads required, (1 owner asking for 2) and to my knowledge no offers of deposits being but forward to help with the considerable amount of funding requested by Claudio to help cover some of his costs of development (of which I was not aware of until earlier this year) over a period of approximately 4 years.
I am sure if you are reading this thread you will be aware that this project is also being covered by another member to the same goal there by diluting the potential requirement for a club funded project, this would not show sound use of members funds.
To expand on this.
The Board are looking at other projects, including and up grade to the DLOC stand used at the NEC ( underway) and the manufacturing of smaller items as and when required / requested with the help of Marcel Renshaw our parts coordinator. We are planning an upgrade to the web site and how the club can embrace IT technology to better communications, membership renewal, pdf magazine, etc, all to the benefit of a wider range of club members. Please bear in mind that most of this is being undertaken by volunteers, so will take time and some of it is going to have to be payed for, to make use of professional services.
If anyone has any helpful comments or ideas on DLOC matters then please contact me direct using the details in the DM.
Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
DLOC
Deputy Chairman


Hello Claudio,
I am glad to see the EL24 head project is well under way and you are keeping us well informed on the web site. I am and grateful you have undertaken this project.

I think Marks idea for putting another article in the D.M. will be the first thing to consider to gauge the size of the market for those that do not look at the forum.
The Board / DLOC and through D.M are more than willing to act as a first contact for any enquirers, and pass on to you.
Generally, the Board is willing to consider a project such as this if approached before its start, with a solid financial case.
Because of the small quantities involved and the amount of members that would benefit from this project, the board feels that it should look at projects that would benefit a wider range of club members.
The Board has reluctantly concluded that it cannot contribute financially to the EL24 cylinder head project.

I wish you good luck and happy motoring in the EL24.

Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
Deputy Chairman
DLOC
Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
Chairman DLOC.

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John-B
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Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by John-B »

ttajf wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pmThe Board has reluctantly concluded that it cannot contribute financially to the EL24 cylinder head project.

I wish you good luck and happy motoring in the EL24.

Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
Deputy Chairman
DLOC

It's all Duncan's fault!!
I realise that the comment about Duncan is your signature, but it might be misinterpreted. I certainly thought that you were blaming Duncan for the board's decision not to finance the cylinder heads but I'm sure that isn't what you intended. You are good friends, I know, I met you both at Sherborne.

Jokes often backfire on forums, as I discovered when I posted some photos.

[Edit: he's changed his signature now.]

A.N.Other
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Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by A.N.Other »

Following the boards decision I will not be renewing my membership next year.
An improved NEC stand should not be funded from the spares fund.
An updated web site should be a balance between that and a quality magazine. Both could be construed as an excessive luxury.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

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ttajf
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:04 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by ttajf »

Hi John thanks for pointing that out, I had forgotten about the signature as is doesn't appear when you type a post, I will change it.
People will get the wrong end of the stick
Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
Chairman DLOC.

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ttajf
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:04 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by ttajf »

Sorry to hear that Colin
The spares fund is not being used to fund the NEC stand and the upgrades are being provided at cost by a club member.
Kind regards
Tony Fardoe
Chairman DLOC.

A.N.Other
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Posts: 551
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Location: Leeds

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by A.N.Other »

It's not what was implied.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

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tescaparts
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: EL24 cylinderhead

Post by tescaparts »

Dear Tony,good evening all,
the decision of the board wasn´t very surprising for us after it´s behaviour in the past,but in any case it is a dissapointment!

Normally i don´t want to participate at this public discussion ,but i think the following things have to be clarified:

1.)
John and i started this project 4 years ago to make our own cars roadworthy.This job will be done early next year!
We never have had the intention to make profit with this project!
2.)
WE NEVER ASKED FOR A DONATION!
As you know i offered the Board to buy the complete datafiles for the costs we had!The club would have received a countervalue,which allows to archive the files for the next generation of owners.In my view one of the main tasks of any club!
If the club have bought the files,i ensured that we only accept orders from the club!
3.)
With a reasonable calculation the club has had the opportunity to get the investment back...additionelly of owning the files!
4.)
In your comment you explain that the club needs money for some projects like upgrading the club stand.Is this more urgent as save some of this wonderfull cars?
After Colin´s critical statement you write that the money for these doesn´t comes from the spare parts fund.Sorry,but your comments contradicts itself!

Please excuse that i have published some details now,but it should not give the impression we tried to enrich ourself in the club.

At last i don´t want forget to thank all the members of this forum for their support and their friendly words,i´ll keep you up to date.
I hope John and i can help other owners to bring their cars back to life in the near future.
All the best
Claudio

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