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Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

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Skinnerpot
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Gloucester

Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Skinnerpot » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pm

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a manual/owners book that ever states the official weights that the Daimler Conquest can tow?

Failing that I guess it falls back to kerb weight?

I would like to tow my Ford Model T to events. The model T is 780kg and the trailer is about 500kg so it's getting close to the kerb weight.

Cheers

classiclife
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
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Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by classiclife » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:58 pm

The usual rule-of-thumb is that the combined tow weight (trailer & load) should not exceed 85% of the towing vehicle.

That said, some will push to 90% but leaves little flexibility.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

Sydsmith
Posts: 843
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Sydsmith » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:33 pm

This might help https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/towmatch/

Alternatively the old rule of thumb was 85% for novice 90% reasonable experience and 95% if you tow regularly.

That being said, it all depends on balance and even with a margin the ability to tow safely greatly depends on how the trailer is loaded. The hitch weight and its effect on the car has to be right. Too much positive hitch weight and it loads the tow car rear and lifts the front, too much hitch lift (the load is too far back on the trailer and lifts the hitch upwards) and the rear of the tow car is lifted and the front end loaded. Either will cause you great problems on a long journey as the trailer will wag the car and cause snaking which is VERY dangerous.

I once towed a car on a trailer (1937 Daimler 15) well within the tow cars safe towing load, within a few hundred yards we were in trouble and had to move the car further back on the trailer, less than a foot, but it made all the difference on our 200 mile journey.

Towing has to be comfortable to be safe. A badly loaded or over loaded trailer is a nightmare and can cause all sorts of stress on a long journey. If in doubt, play safe. Syd

Skinnerpot
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Gloucester

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Skinnerpot » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:03 pm

Cheers for the replies.

I'm aware of the rules regarding kerb weights and the recommendations of % of weight, loading etc but was more after if anyone knows of ant official publication/manual that might state what it's towing limit might be as if Daimler did mention one it could be more or less than the kerb weight.

Cheers

classiclife
Posts: 485
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Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
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Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by classiclife » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:44 pm

I've probably got this around the wrong way, but I cannot see Daimler (or any other manufacturer) stating that the permissible towing weight is either 100% or more than that.

Surely the kerbside weight of the Conquest divided by the 85% rule = the weight you are seeking to determine with the benefit of adding a voluntary 10% to that figure.

Apologies if this is not the case, but I am struggling to see any other formula. That said, I do note your comment on a possible lower towing weight of 85%.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Area Representative.

Southern Classics Society Events Co-ordinator.
www.southernclassics.org.uk

Skinnerpot
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Gloucester

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Skinnerpot » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:04 pm

Hi Classiclife,

Harder to explain over messages but I believe the legal limit is 100%, any other percentages are simply recommendations. However I do know that some older manufacturers did state in their owners manuals what they believe is safe to tow (like all modern cars have to by law which can be above or below the kerb weight).

I was wondering if this information existed OR if Daimler were one of the manufacturers that never stated it (then it would default to the kerb weight rule). I don't want to be caught out towing a trailer if for example I was then told there was limit imposed by Daimler. By the same terms I also know that some manufacturers will state that they feel the cars can tow safely more than the kerb weight - most obvious example of this is something like a Range Rover that is stated to tow 3500kgs when the kerb weight is much much lower. I know that my 1959 Morris Minor states a safe towing weight in the manual which is lower than the Kerb Weight of the car.

So basically I am asking if anyone knows if there is a recommended towing weight limit stated in any of their owners manuals/service manuals etc. Failing that I will refer back to the kerb weights as a way of proving that I am towing safely.

Cheers :D

Photo for entertainment Image

Sydsmith
Posts: 843
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Sydsmith » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:14 pm

Andrew.
Assuming you are talking DJ252/3, I have it on e Very Good authority from a well known guru and respected expert who lives here in the west and I quote :-
The owner's handbook does not give a permissible towing weight. However, the Trader Data for the Conquest range 1953 -4 states the towing capacity at 30cwts. I find this quite remarkable for a saloon weighing 27 cwts 'dry' - the Coupé weighing 27cwts 14lbs.

I do think that is as near to what you have in mind as you are going to get. Syd

Skinnerpot
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Gloucester

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Skinnerpot » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Hi Sydsmith,

That is absolutely perfect, thank you very much. I am surprised its higher too!

Is the 'Trader Data' like a dealership manual/sales info? At least with that information to hand I can be confident I am towing within the cars manufacturers limits.

I have been pressing the DVLA/DVSA on what is the law when it comes to towing with older cars that don't have MAM weights and Train Weights but they are (unsurprisingly) very unhelpful and basically always come back to 'we suggest you take legal advice'. The .gov websites say that you must follow the manufacturers recommendations in the handbook or weight plate but don't say what to do if that doesn't exist!

Chris_R
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:48 pm
Location: Twickenham

Re: Towing with a Conquest DHC - Weights

Post by Chris_R » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:38 pm

Hi, my take on this is from a historical perspective. Things like manufacturers towing limits started to come about with monocoque chassis constructions with thin pressed steel forming the underbody of the car. The towing limits are more to do with the construction of the vehicle and the amount of load that can be placed on the points that manufacturers put into the steel pressings without distorting the steel bodywork than they are to do with anything else. The constructions and use regulations will govern this.
Before that, cars were mostly built with independent chassis which were (usually) much more substantial than the monocoque chassis that came later and manufacturers did not specify towing limits. I don't think there is a specific limit for your Daimler. Anyway, can you imagine Daimler specifying something like that for their clientele? Towing with a Daimler? Such an activity would be beneath their dignity!
There is no specific law that places weight limits on towing other than you should not exceed the manufacturers specification which as above relates to the construction methods of the modern cars and the construction and use regulations. The caravan clubs recommend 85% of the cars weight on the basis that much more than that can lead to snaking if the load is unbalanced or incorrect and to never exceed 100% or the manufacturers specification whichever is the lower for more experienced drivers. With a caravan you have a very big square box behind you, usually bigger than the towing car and which is very susceptible to side wind forces, e.g. from passing lorries or sudden cross winds in exposed places. The heavier it is the more it can impact the towing vehicle. A car on a trailer would not have the same characteristics.
On the other hand my Range Rover, which has a separate chassis, weight about 2,000kg, is permitted to tow up to 3,500kg on a braked trailer and 4,000kg with a close coupled brake adaption. I have towed the Majestic Major on a trailer, total weight about 2,600kg and whilst it was hard work the main thing is it takes longer to build up speed and braking takes longer.
If there is not a manufacturers limit, within reason, you can pretty much tow what you like as long as you are sensible about it. The only law you can break is towing limits under the construction and use regulations which would not apply to your car as it pre-dated them. If there isn't a specified limit then you can't exceed it. The problem of getting someone today to agree this is that for the last 50 years or more the overwhelming majority of cars have been monocoque and most people have no experience of what came before and do not know the history of how things were and how they developed. There is a chap with a 1929 Bentley and he uses it tow a trailer with variously a Porsche 962 or a Bentley GT3 racer, photographed earlier in this thread.
The DVLA or DVSA would never give an answer in case a liability came back to them.

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