Hi all
So I’m sure I read somewhere that the gearbox comes out from inside the car? Can’t remember where I saw it though . I’m going to need to replace the flywheel seal very soon and need to know how best to tackle this so has anyone removed their gearbox and can advise?
I’m thinking;
Remove the seats
Remove the prop shaft
Remove the gear linkage Etc
Undo the 6(?) bolts holding the box to the flywheel housing
Undo gearbox mounting from below and bobs your uncle
I’m sure it’s not going to be that easy though? I’m hoping the seal can be seen when the box is out and changed easily?
Anyone of you knowledgeable chaps got any advice
Cheers
Graham
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DB18 Consort gearbox removal
DB18 Consort gearbox removal
1951 Daimler DB18 Consort
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
I did this on my grandfather's car back in 1976.
As far as I remember, there's not enough room in the cabin because of the cross-piece for the floor, which runs over the rear of the gearbox, and not enough room to manoeuvre past that, so it comes out underneath (gearbox alone weighs about 1 cwt, I think). Either way, you'll have to support the engine at that end as the gearbox mount supports the whole lot at that end.
To get to the seal, you then have to remove the bell housing to get to the engine flywheel, to undo all the bolts that hold the outer section (the driving member) onto the engine flywheel. The seal is between the outer (driving member) and the inner (driven member) and the driven member has to come out of the driving member to renew the seal (you can't get the driven member out until the driving member is off the engine flywheel).
For various other reasons, in the end, I took the entire engine & gearbox out in one go.
As far as I remember, there's not enough room in the cabin because of the cross-piece for the floor, which runs over the rear of the gearbox, and not enough room to manoeuvre past that, so it comes out underneath (gearbox alone weighs about 1 cwt, I think). Either way, you'll have to support the engine at that end as the gearbox mount supports the whole lot at that end.
To get to the seal, you then have to remove the bell housing to get to the engine flywheel, to undo all the bolts that hold the outer section (the driving member) onto the engine flywheel. The seal is between the outer (driving member) and the inner (driven member) and the driven member has to come out of the driving member to renew the seal (you can't get the driven member out until the driving member is off the engine flywheel).
For various other reasons, in the end, I took the entire engine & gearbox out in one go.
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
Brian, I assume the Consort and the DB 18 saloon chassis are identical and certainly the gearboxes are so I’ll work on that basis. Right, here we go!
There are 2 ways to remove the gearbox - the first way is to remove the engine and gearbox together, which implies lots of work; the other way is to remove it in situ which is how I did it. Takes much less time. Since the chassis gets in the way preventing the whole gearbox being removed from inside the car then a partial strip of the box is needed. Disconnect both ends of the prop shaft and remove it. Remove the gearbox ‘lid’. Slacken the reverse and first gear pullrod nuts 4 turns (or more if necessary) and write down the numbers so you don’t forget them - on reassembly they must be screwed down the same amount. This releases any clamping effect applied by the 2 brake bands on the annuli and side load on the output drive shaft. Undo the output drive flange nut after removing its split pin and undo the 6 bolts securing the gearbox rear seal cover to the gearbox housing. Temporarily refit the drive flange to the shaft, refit the castellated nut and tap the drive flange rearwards with a hide mallet. The entire output driveshaft, seal assembly and speedo drive gear will come away as an assembly. With all that stuff out of the way there is now enough room to remove the gearbox in situ after disconnecting the selector shaft, engagement rod speedo cable, bolts etc. There are 2 different size bushes fitted to the inner bore of output driveshaft to retain concentricity with the input driveshaft so don’t overlook them. It is easy to pinch the rear felt seal’s steel ring when tightening the 6 bolts, so bear that in mind as well.
Steve
There are 2 ways to remove the gearbox - the first way is to remove the engine and gearbox together, which implies lots of work; the other way is to remove it in situ which is how I did it. Takes much less time. Since the chassis gets in the way preventing the whole gearbox being removed from inside the car then a partial strip of the box is needed. Disconnect both ends of the prop shaft and remove it. Remove the gearbox ‘lid’. Slacken the reverse and first gear pullrod nuts 4 turns (or more if necessary) and write down the numbers so you don’t forget them - on reassembly they must be screwed down the same amount. This releases any clamping effect applied by the 2 brake bands on the annuli and side load on the output drive shaft. Undo the output drive flange nut after removing its split pin and undo the 6 bolts securing the gearbox rear seal cover to the gearbox housing. Temporarily refit the drive flange to the shaft, refit the castellated nut and tap the drive flange rearwards with a hide mallet. The entire output driveshaft, seal assembly and speedo drive gear will come away as an assembly. With all that stuff out of the way there is now enough room to remove the gearbox in situ after disconnecting the selector shaft, engagement rod speedo cable, bolts etc. There are 2 different size bushes fitted to the inner bore of output driveshaft to retain concentricity with the input driveshaft so don’t overlook them. It is easy to pinch the rear felt seal’s steel ring when tightening the 6 bolts, so bear that in mind as well.
Steve
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Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
Gentlemen,
The fluid flywheel oil seal is leaking on my Special Sports. A former owner of such a wondrous beast told me that he had replaced the fluid flywheel oil seal by accessing it through the bell housing, he said there was no need to remove the bell housing, "just" withdraw and drop the gear box as per Steve's suggested method I guess.
Any comments on this?
Peter Grant
The fluid flywheel oil seal is leaking on my Special Sports. A former owner of such a wondrous beast told me that he had replaced the fluid flywheel oil seal by accessing it through the bell housing, he said there was no need to remove the bell housing, "just" withdraw and drop the gear box as per Steve's suggested method I guess.
Any comments on this?
Peter Grant
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
There were other reasons though, as to why I decided to remove the engine & gearbox complete, which is not difficult if you have decent lifting gear. Basically I wanted to work on the engine as well.qantasqf1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:37 am Brian, I assume the Consort and the DB 18 saloon chassis are identical and certainly the gearboxes are so I’ll work on that basis. Right, here we go!
There are 2 ways to remove the gearbox - the first way is to remove the engine and gearbox together, which implies lots of work; the other way is to remove it in situ which is how I did it. Takes much less time. Since the chassis gets in the way preventing the whole gearbox being removed from inside the car then a partial strip of the box is needed. Disconnect both ends of the prop shaft and remove it. Remove the gearbox ‘lid’. Slacken the reverse and first gear pullrod nuts 4 turns (or more if necessary) and write down the numbers so you don’t forget them - on reassembly they must be screwed down the same amount. This releases any clamping effect applied by the 2 brake bands on the annuli and side load on the output drive shaft. Undo the output drive flange nut after removing its split pin and undo the 6 bolts securing the gearbox rear seal cover to the gearbox housing. Temporarily refit the drive flange to the shaft, refit the castellated nut and tap the drive flange rearwards with a hide mallet. The entire output driveshaft, seal assembly and speedo drive gear will come away as an assembly. With all that stuff out of the way there is now enough room to remove the gearbox in situ after disconnecting the selector shaft, engagement rod speedo cable, bolts etc. There are 2 different size bushes fitted to the inner bore of output driveshaft to retain concentricity with the input driveshaft so don’t overlook them. It is easy to pinch the rear felt seal’s steel ring when tightening the 6 bolts, so bear that in mind as well.
Steve
The way that you describe getting the gearbox out, is described in the May 1951 Motor Trader Supplement, which I had at the time.
Here is the section relevant to removing the gearbox
Note that at the bottom it says "Gearbox and bell housing cannot be removed together".
However, I was also told (by someone who was well known to the DLOC in the 80's but I can't remember his name, I'l find it later) that you can remove the gearbox and bell housing together without having to do anything to the gearbox internals.
Several years later, I got hold of the Daimler manual on the fluid flywheel and epicyclic gearbox. On page 17 it describes how to remove the gearbox with bell housing attached
Regarding the seal itself, it seems that it's on the outside of the driven member, so with some fiddling and luck, it may be possible to renew it in place. As I say, I did it with the engine out anyway and with the driving member removed from the engine flywheel.
Note that both those images are high res, so if you want to download them, click on the image and it will open in Imgur..
Last edited by Brian-H on Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
Actually, the seal is accessible on the outside of the driving member, not from the inside, so it might be possible to renew it without having to remove the driving member.Peter Grant wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:46 am Gentlemen,
The fluid flywheel oil seal is leaking on my Special Sports. A former owner of such a wondrous beast told me that he had replaced the fluid flywheel oil seal by accessing it through the bell housing, he said there was no need to remove the bell housing, "just" withdraw and drop the gear box as per Steve's suggested method I guess.
Any comments on this?
Peter Grant
Whether one removes the gearbox leaving the bell housing in place, or removes the gearbox and bell housing together (see previous post) is a personal choice.
Here are the images relevant to the fluid flywheel and the seal.
From Motor Trader supplement
From the Daimler manual (see the instructions on renewing the seal where they use a press to press it in, IIRC that's what I did)
As before, these are high res images, if you want to download them, click on the image and it'll open in Imgur [NOTE - do not click on "Next Post" in Imgur, as it will not take you a next image of mine, but any image in Imgur by anyone, some of which are mental]
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Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
Graham, it's a brave move and you'll need a fit young man to help out!
Both the manuals Brian mentions are available for download on the DB18.org site.
David Beales sells the replacement seals, I should make sure you have them in your hand before starting work.
Both the manuals Brian mentions are available for download on the DB18.org site.
David Beales sells the replacement seals, I should make sure you have them in your hand before starting work.
Graham Emmett ¦ DLOC Chairman ¦ chair@dloc.co.uk ¦ 07967 109160
Northwich, Cheshire
DB18 1949 LCV522 (Yes that one with the P100s)
Northwich, Cheshire
DB18 1949 LCV522 (Yes that one with the P100s)
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
At the risk of labouring the point the DB18 gearbox simply CANNOT be removed in situ with the output drive shaft and the bell housing fitted to it - don’t even think about it! (I can only guess this practice applies to later models like the Conquest.) Returning to the DB18, it would definitely be preferable to remove the bell housing and FF driving member to replace the seal. That’s because the driven member shaft can be cleaned and checked for wear at the seal lip running area plus it’s dead easy to drift out the old seal rather than messing around with the FF shaft still in place. As well as that the large bush pressed into the driving member can be checked for looseness - that happens occasionally. After all, having got as far as gearbox removal then removal of the bell housing and FF is no big deal anyway. A correlation mark for the driving member and the flywheel proper should be made to ensure balance is retained on reassembly. (They were originally balanced as a unit at the factory.) Finally, if you’ve got this far, replacement lip type oil seals are easy to source and cheap to boot because they’re pretty much standard dimensions - mine set me back Au$8 (4 quid) at a local seals and bearings retailer.
Steve. Again.
Steve. Again.
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
Thanks for all your help guys, I’m going to tackle this over the next couple of weeks, mine leaked when I bought the car but is noticeably worse now after not being used during the winter so I’m hoping it’s only the seal, I bought one from David Beales last year and didn’t get around to changing it so here goes
Graham do I have a fit young (old) man to help so won’t be on my own, am hoping to drop the gearbox out of the way and am going to see what it all looks like then.
When I’ve done I’ll write it up on here along with any problems encountered on the way
Cheers
Graham
Graham do I have a fit young (old) man to help so won’t be on my own, am hoping to drop the gearbox out of the way and am going to see what it all looks like then.
When I’ve done I’ll write it up on here along with any problems encountered on the way
Cheers
Graham
1951 Daimler DB18 Consort
Re: DB18 Consort gearbox removal
I changed the fluid flywheel seal on one of my Conquests by dropping the gearbox on a jack. Car needs to be lifted high enough that you can maneuver the gear box far enough out of the way to access the fluid flywheel. I jacked the car up so that the bumpers were about 20” off the ground and supported the car on jack stands. This gave just enough access to do the job, but it wouldn’t have been enough access to pull the transmission out from under the car. I don’t know of any reason that this method couldn’t be used on a DB18.
Chris Young
1954 DJ 250
1954 DJ 252
1957 DJ 254
1952 DB18 Special Sports
1954 DJ 250
1954 DJ 252
1957 DJ 254
1952 DB18 Special Sports