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In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

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ahaugland
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 3:39 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by ahaugland »

Greetings! As an introduction, I am new to this forum but am the owner of two Daimlers, amongst other classic cars, the first being a 1952 DB18 Special Sports and most recently, I purchased a 1936 Daimler E20. The DB18 is a running car but the Daimler E20 isn't, so I am looking at getting it back on the road. Being in the United States, it is an incredibly rare car here and as the prewar parts supply isn't as prevalent as it is for the later models, I'm hoping that this forum can help with the process. The car was a running, driving car 9 years ago, but had begun leaking coolant into the crankcase, through rusted freeze plugs. The previous owner had replaced the plugs, but one started leaking again at which point he took it off the road and gave up on it. We have disassembled the engine identified the culprit, and will replace all the welch plugs with threaded bronze tapered units to solve the issue once and for all, but in the process we found the timing chain sprockets have worn over the 75000 miles this car has covered in the past 84 years and the teeth on the sprockets are now razor sharp points. I've found that new timing chains are available but was wondering if anyone had a source for the sprockets, both on the crank and the cam. If not I will likely have to have one made and fortunately have access to a talented machinist to do the work, but the cost would almost certainly be significantly higher than if parts were available. If anyone has any input or help they can provide for locating these parts, I'd be greatly appreciative. In the mean time, I will keep working on what else I can get done to get this car back in operation soon.

--Alex Haugland
Eugene, OR
USA

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John-B
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Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by John-B »

Welcome to the forum, Alex, there are plenty of US members and several others who own E20 cars. I expect you will get several replies within a day or two. DB18 cars are widely owned.

The editor of the DLOC magazine owns a E20 and a Special Sports, or used to own them.

Sydsmith
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Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by Sydsmith »

Hi Alex, welcome to the forum and congratulations on acquiring a great motor car.

From your contribution so far, you appear to have got to grips with the beast and though I cannot help with the parts you need I am sure someone on the forum will be able to help very shortly.

I have emailed the joint registrar for the E20 in the Daimler Owners Club. He has a very good knowledge of the model, though not a member of this forum he does read it from time to time.

I am sure he will be interested to hear more details about your car, in particular the Chassis and Engine numbers, knowing him, he will perhaps already have some record and history of the car, if not he will be very interested in adding it to his list.

Best wishes and good luck with your search for parts. Syd

Sydsmith
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Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by Sydsmith »

Another to the collection then Alex, what a superb range of cars. http://hauglandcollection.com/

Simon Hyslop

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by Simon Hyslop »

I must also confess immediately to not having the answer you need this minute to your question but I hope this may be of some use. The chain you need, as you probably know, is a standard item, 114038, 70 pitches, I think - common to various BSA made products and many many more at the time. I bought a box of it for my Lanchester and at the same time I also bought some new sprockets because the sprockets are a fairly standard item in their "raw" form. By raw I mean they have the right amount of teeth but requiring machining to suit the specific application. Below is a link to firm here in the UK showing their 0.375 Duplex sprocket range. I am sure there will be a comparable US firm who does the same. As you will see, the price per sprocket is very reasonable but of course it will require machining to suit a particular application.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Engin ... index.html

Since I bought mine, it is now possible to buy sprocket and chain sets for some Daimlers and Lanchesters but if you have access to a decent machine shop, either your own or someone capable, buying the ready made raw sprocket is a reasonably priced way to achieve your goal. You'll need to know the number of teeth required on each sprocket, not having an E20 I can't tell you that but it's extremely likely it will be a stock size. In fact, they may be common to other BSA products of the time too. You won't, I hope, have to reinvent the wheel !

Hoping that is of use.

ahaugland
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 3:39 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by ahaugland »

Thank you! The website as can be seen today is outdated and is only part of the collection but we're working on a major redesign of it which hopefully will start going up within the month at which point we'll start getting the whole collection online. Right now that total is approaching 150 vehicles, of which a significant majority are reliably running, driving cars, though with a few restoration projects like my Daimler E20 in the wings waiting their turn.
Sydsmith wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 10:31 am Another to the collection then Alex, what a superb range of cars. http://hauglandcollection.com/

ahaugland
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 3:39 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by ahaugland »

Thank you for your information and input. It's certainly appreciated! I did order a new timing chain as it is readily available. If we have to make new sprockets, blanks like these are certainly the direction we'd be looking at going, rather than machining from scratch. The E20 has 44 teeth on one sprocket and 22 on the other sprocket. The source you provided has the 22 tooth sprocket but not the 44, though the main need is to exactly match the ratio of 2:1 and meet clearances, while keeping the chain appropriately tensioned, so we may still be able to look at that source, or something similar if necessary, to remake them in as close to an identical tooth count as possible and adjust the chain length as needed.
Simon Hyslop wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:24 am I must also confess immediately to not having the answer you need this minute to your question but I hope this may be of some use. The chain you need, as you probably know, is a standard item, 114038, 70 pitches, I think - common to various BSA made products and many many more at the time. I bought a box of it for my Lanchester and at the same time I also bought some new sprockets because the sprockets are a fairly standard item in their "raw" form. By raw I mean they have the right amount of teeth but requiring machining to suit the specific application. Below is a link to firm here in the UK showing their 0.375 Duplex sprocket range. I am sure there will be a comparable US firm who does the same. As you will see, the price per sprocket is very reasonable but of course it will require machining to suit a particular application.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Engin ... index.html

Since I bought mine, it is now possible to buy sprocket and chain sets for some Daimlers and Lanchesters but if you have access to a decent machine shop, either your own or someone capable, buying the ready made raw sprocket is a reasonably priced way to achieve your goal. You'll need to know the number of teeth required on each sprocket, not having an E20 I can't tell you that but it's extremely likely it will be a stock size. In fact, they may be common to other BSA products of the time too. You won't, I hope, have to reinvent the wheel !

Hoping that is of use.

Sydsmith
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by Sydsmith »

Hi Alex. Wondered how you got on with the parts and if there was any chance of a photo. The joint model registrar would also appreciate a chassis and engine number for the club records if there is any chance.

If you would prefer not to publish them here, drop me a personal message to my email address and I will pass them on to him, but if preferred I will forward you his email address. Best wishes in this terrible time. Syd

ahaugland
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 3:39 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by ahaugland »

My Daimler E20 is likely already known to the registrar, as the previous owner was a member of the club. The chassis number is 42693. I unfortunately don't have the engine number on hand, but if it isn't already in the registry, I'd be happy to share it. This car was last registered in the UK as BWU 549, but left the UK in 1968, bound for Canada. I do have quite a bit of documentation of the history of the car, staying in the same family from its original purchase in 1937 until 2001, before finding its way to the previous owner who bought it in 2003 from a classic car dealer in Oregon, USA.

--Alex Haugland
Eugene, OR
USA

Sydsmith
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:15 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Wales

Re: In search of E20 timing chain sprockets

Post by Sydsmith »

Many thanks for the update Alex, I have passed the information on to the registrar and as you thought he has already got a record of the car, but he is grateful to have an update of its ownership and location. Good luck with your project look forward to seeing it on your website when you update it. Best wishes Syd

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