Please visit the Club's website https://www.dloc.org.uk/ to join. Visit https://www.dloc.org.uk/adhoc to DONATE towards the cost of the forum.
Please don't post someone's email address to avoid it being harvested by spambots and it's against GDPR regulations.
Always look at "ACTIVE TOPICS" to see all posts in date & time order as they are sometimes moved; or look at "Your Posts".
Please add Reg. nrs. when posting a photo or anything about a car as this will help searches. Don't add punctuation next to nr. as this negates search.
CHANGED YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS since registering?, click your username and check your address in User Control Panel, Profile, Account Settings.
If you want help to register, use "contact us" at page bottom for help.

Steering

Post Reply
Flinty
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:34 pm
Location: Scarborough

Steering

Post by Flinty »

I purchased an SP250 late last year and did not drive it until this year,
Having now driven it for a good few miles I am very pleased with all aspects of the car except the steering, It is fitted with a Triumph rack from a Spitfire and it seems a bit stiff with little or no self centering.

I have given it a good grease and increased tyre pressures to 30 rear and 28 front which gave a little improvement but it still seems not quite right.
Do other cars self centre or am I expecting to much.


Steve.

User avatar
John-B
Site Admin
Posts: 1755
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:10 pm
Location: Salisbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Steering

Post by John-B »

I don't know what tyres you have, but there was another topic a few months ago where tyre pressures were discussed. 28psi at the front would appear to be a bit low and a higher pressure would make the steering lighter. I run my tyres at 31psi all round.

Years ago I adjusted the toe-in myself and over-did it. The car certainly self-centered but danced around too. Try increasing the toe-in a little.

User avatar
JohnM
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:31 pm
Location: N W London

Re: Steering

Post by JohnM »

Hi Steve,
assuming the R&P conversion is one of the "known" ones, self-centering shouldn't be a problem, and the car should feel stable on the steering at all speeds. In fact, some of us prefer lower front tyre pressures because otherwise the steering can feel too light ( I run 26/28 front/rear on 165 section tyres).
As John says, check your toe-in - remember the settiing in the manual is for crossply tyres, not radials - I prefer mine set to 0deg (parallel), and check your camber angle isn't still set positive (for crossplys again) 0deg camber seems to work well.

If all that seems OK, try jacking the front up and disconnecting the track rod ends from the hubs. Do the hubs swivel freely? They should be very free to swivel, and if they're not, you need to check your vertical links/trunnions/top balljoints quickly, as they can snap if they seize. Can you move the swivel pins in the track rod ends? and the ball joints in the rack? If there's a seized one it will put real stiffness into the steering.
Does the steering wheel rotate nice & freely with the rack disconnected from the hubs? If not, maybe the rack bar is bent, or the pinion shimming is wrong.

Also, if you don't know which R&P conversion it is, a quick check is that the rack tube centre height should be close to the level of the crankshaft pulley nut, and the rack should be in front of the crankshaft pulley with only enough space to comfortably replace the fan belt. If that isn't where the rack's positioned, the steering geometry won't be correct.

Hope that might give you a few ideas, and get you towards getting even more pleasure from your SP!

Cheers, John
John M in Middlesex, NW London
1962 SP250 "B" Spec
DLOC Herts Region Sec

classiclife
Classic Wise Man
Classic Wise Man
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
Contact:

Re: Steering

Post by classiclife »

Hello,

Questions to both John's please, as I am unsighted on the following.

With the SP250 Triumph R&P does it also use the vertical link and trunnions from the Triumph ??

Reason I ask is that I also have a Triumph Vitesse and the trunnions MUST be lubricated with EP90 and NOT grease, as the latter does not circulate properly leading to lack of lubrication and eventual snapping.

This most often occurs when such a set-up is being manoeuvred at very slow speeds - such as in to a parking space.

EP90 negates this situation by ensuring the trunnions are fully lubricated and is specified by Standard Triumph.

It's a question out of interest really.

Many thanks.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Branch Secretary
DLOC 2.5L V8 & V8-250 Registrar - https://www.dloc.org.uk/v8-250
DLOC 2024 International Rally - https://www.dloc.org.uk/rally-2024

Ian Slade
Wise Man
Wise Man
Posts: 791
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:54 am
Location: Sevilla Spain

Re: Steering

Post by Ian Slade »

Non of the conversions I know of have used Triumph vertical links from a Vitesse or Herald, there have been some that have used the TR6 lower wishbones and vertical links but that also uses Triumph discs and calipers unless there have been modifications. Personally I use the original steering set up which can be played with to produce a reasonable lightness, the shims on the chassis end of the lower wishbones give you all the answers, you just need to play, doubt there will be many with the correct set up now.
Don't forget the Herald and Vitesse have extreme steering locks, the SP lock is nowhere near either of those two.
Owner since the 70's, Genghis is slightly to my left.

A.N.Other
Wide Man
Wide Man
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:45 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Steering

Post by A.N.Other »

On the Triumph racks there is a large hexagon cap which contains a spring and plunger arrangement if memory serves me correctly. It reduces play in the rack ,I think, and if it is set too tight it will restrict the steering to the extent you describe.
Colin,
I may be slow but I’m rough as well !

classiclife
Classic Wise Man
Classic Wise Man
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Location: Ridgewood - East Sussex
Contact:

Re: Steering

Post by classiclife »

Thanks Ian, that makes sense.

Regards.

Richard.
1968 Daimler V8-250 Saloon
DLOC East Sussex Branch Secretary
DLOC 2.5L V8 & V8-250 Registrar - https://www.dloc.org.uk/v8-250
DLOC 2024 International Rally - https://www.dloc.org.uk/rally-2024

Flinty
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:34 pm
Location: Scarborough

Re: Steering

Post by Flinty »

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, The rack installation is a Robert Grinter conversion so I think it will be properly located, I will try the other points and see if I can locate the problem and report back.

Steve.

Flinty
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:34 pm
Location: Scarborough

Re: Steering

Post by Flinty »

Update.
Well I started at the hubs and checked the track rod ends then rack and then u/js on the column and all seemed Ok then I tried the steering wheel with the u/j disconnected from the rack and it was tight.
I took off the steering column and slid the outer part of the column off the steering shaft with a great deal of difficulty, The shaft was shall we say not smooth and so I polished the shaft and eased the nylon bushes with emery tape and re assembled with new grease.
The steering is transformed and I am a very happy man,
Thank you everyone for your help, and I think I must give special thanks to Tim one of our forum members who telephoned me and told me of his similar problem that was also due to a tight column.

Steve. :D

grahamemmett
Chief Geek
Chief Geek
Posts: 1361
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:12 pm
Location: Northwich, Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Steering

Post by grahamemmett »

The knowledge displayed on this forum never ceases to amaze me
Graham Emmett ¦ DLOC Chairman ¦ chair@dloc.co.uk ¦ 07967 109160
Northwich, Cheshire
DB18 1949 LCV522 (Yes that one with the P100s)

Post Reply