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UFOs & Aliens

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Do aliens and UFOs exist? (Two choices which you can change.)

Aliens do exist (over 70% sure). (UFOs are manned and are not just robotic drones.)
3
18%
Aliens don't exist.
4
24%
I'm not sure about aliens.
1
6%
UFOs are alien-made (over 90% sure).
4
24%
UFOs are man-made.
3
18%
I'm not sure about UFOs.
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

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John-B
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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by John-B »

Brian-H wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:03 am The tube has to go right through the centre of the earth, the entry and exit points have to be diametrically opposite, and all the air has to be pumped out. I think you might be right about the sea level thing, for example, Nepal is diametrically opposite an area in the Pacific about 1500 miles west of Santiago, Chile. Peak speed at the centre of the earth would be almost 18,000 mph !! - so you'd have to hope that the capsule you were in didn't glance off the tube wall at that moment. Also, if there wasn't a catching mechanism at either end, the capsule would go back again, and again, and again, forever (assuming that air didn't slowly leak back into the tube, in which case you'd eventually end up stuck in the middle).
All thought out by the Eagle comic in the 1950s - the tube through Mercury had a kind of ski jump at the end so Dan and his mates came up out of the tube at speed onto a curved chute which shot them upwards so that gravity slowed them down gradually, like going back up a ski jump instead of down it, if you see what I mean.

I should have collected my stack of Eagle comics when the contents of my parents' home were being sold but I was too busy arranging my mother's new home purchase, so they were sold. They're quite valuable and very informative now, predicting things like video calls via a watch, hover cars, levitation for the Mekon's funny little flying seat which buzzed around, etc. However we haven't mastered teleportation yet. Surprisingly, I don't remember any time travel, the Mekon just moved from one place to another on Mercury via a special booth which he flew into.

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

John-B wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:03 am
Brian-H wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:03 am The tube has to go right through the centre of the earth, the entry and exit points have to be diametrically opposite, and all the air has to be pumped out. I think you might be right about the sea level thing, for example, Nepal is diametrically opposite an area in the Pacific about 1500 miles west of Santiago, Chile. Peak speed at the centre of the earth would be almost 18,000 mph !! - so you'd have to hope that the capsule you were in didn't glance off the tube wall at that moment. Also, if there wasn't a catching mechanism at either end, the capsule would go back again, and again, and again, forever (assuming that air didn't slowly leak back into the tube, in which case you'd eventually end up stuck in the middle).
All thought out by the Eagle comic in the 1950s - the tube through Mercury had a kind of ski jump at the end so Dan and his mates came up out of the tube at speed onto a curved chute which shot them upwards so that gravity slowed them down gradually, like going back up a ski jump instead of down it, if you see what I mean.

I should have collected my stack of Eagle comics when the contents of my parents' home were being sold but I was too busy arranging my mother's new home purchase, so they were sold. They're quite valuable and very informative now, predicting things like video calls via a watch, hover cars, levitation for the Mekon's funny little flying seat which buzzed around, etc. However we haven't mastered teleportation yet. Surprisingly, I don't remember any time travel, the Mekon just moved from one place to another on Mercury via a special booth which he flew into.
I don't think it was the same thing, it didn't rely on gravity.

There was one on Venus called the electrosender
dandare_venus_electrosender.jpg
The one on Mercury was similar but it wasn't called anything
dandare_mercury_transporthall.jpg

Here is the modern version, the Siemens Maglev (I went on that ~18 years ago, reached 300 km/hr)
Image


Apparently, Eagle comic got their ideas from Arthur C Clarke - also well-known for giving advice in the 1968 film 2001: a space odyssey - and he also predicted geo-stationary satellites for communications

Going back to the "42 minutes to travel through the earth by gravity" - I just realised that, apart from the extremely high temperatures at the earth's core, and the problem of extracting the air, and the problem of earth quakes, and the problem of keeping away from the walls of the tube, there's a fundamental problem which is that earth's centre of mass and its geometric centre (if it can be defined) are not co-incident. Other than all those problems, it would be feasible LOL

Shame about losing those Eagle comics, looking on ebay they do sell for at least £20 each.

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Fossil »

Thanks for the reminder of the Halcyon days of the 'Eagle' and Dan Dare, otherwise known for its centre-fold illustrations, one of which featured the SP250; I have a copy of that framed.

I chose a rival product called the 'Rocket', of which I remember O, other than that it was edited by Douglas Bader. I sometimes also read the 'Lion', which I do remember a little because it was the first time I came across that recurring science fiction theme, the shape-shifting alien that could adopt anyone's appearance. The Eagle and Rocket were sorts of broadsheet, while the Lion was tabloid, but still enjoyable, unlike the Sun.

But to return to the primary purpose of this thread; this month's 'Astronomy Now' magazine carries a list of books published by themselves. One that I hope to find in my heap on Christmas Day is titled 'The Contact Paradox' by Keith Cooper, the editor of the publication. On the front cover it has the following explanatory statement: 'Challenging our assumptions in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence'. I note the word 'intelligence' rather than 'life'.

You can find it at shop.astronomynow.com

If we all get one it may give us something to discuss further in 2021?

Regards

Geoff

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by John-B »

There have been endless reports that one of the aliens found in the Roswell crashed UFO was found alive. Today's TV added the comment that he was restored to health (no explanation how) and US military people eventually managed to talk with him and discovered that he was the craft's engineer. How would humans and aliens learn to communicate with each other?

The programme said that information he gave helped American designers to achieve radar invisibility and propulsion methods. The Canadian Avro saucer which barely got off the ground was taken back to USA where the Americans changed the propulsion to something that worked. I've seen a photo of large and medium sized circular flying saucers outside a hangar with a lot of technicians standing in front, apparently posing specially for a photo at some kind of celebration. Another result of alien help was the drone X-47B.
s-l300.jpg
s-l300.jpg (12.97 KiB) Viewed 97080 times
I find it difficult to believe these stories, but so many people are now in their last days alive and deciding to say what they know and break the secrecy that the stories may have some truth.

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

Fossil wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:29 pm Thanks for the reminder of the Halcyon days of the 'Eagle' and Dan Dare, otherwise known for its centre-fold illustrations, one of which featured the SP250; I have a copy of that framed.

I chose a rival product called the 'Rocket', of which I remember O, other than that it was edited by Douglas Bader. I sometimes also read the 'Lion', which I do remember a little because it was the first time I came across that recurring science fiction theme, the shape-shifting alien that could adopt anyone's appearance. The Eagle and Rocket were sorts of broadsheet, while the Lion was tabloid, but still enjoyable, unlike the Sun.

But to return to the primary purpose of this thread; this month's 'Astronomy Now' magazine carries a list of books published by themselves. One that I hope to find in my heap on Christmas Day is titled 'The Contact Paradox' by Keith Cooper, the editor of the publication. On the front cover it has the following explanatory statement: 'Challenging our assumptions in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence'. I note the word 'intelligence' rather than 'life'.

You can find it at shop.astronomynow.com

If we all get one it may give us something to discuss further in 2021?

Regards

Geoff
A photo of that framed centre-fold would be good to see

Nothing in Wikipedia about 'Rocket' but I found a thread on a forum call Comics UK from April 2015 where someone had the full set (32) of Rocket comics https://www.comicsuk.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 148&t=6495

Lion is in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(comics) where it says "Editor Bernard Smith was always proud to say that he had the latest issue of Lion delivered to Buckingham Palace every Friday, the young Prince Charles being an avid reader".

EDIT - forgot to include this page on the internet which shows the characters in Lion https://comicvine.gamespot.com/lion/405 ... haracters/


I've never heard of 'Astronomy Now' but indeed it looks very interesting https://astronomynow.com/
£18.99 for the book 'The Contact Paradox' https://shop.astronomynow.com/product/t ... t-paradox/

In reference to 'extraterrestrial intelligence' it's my opinion that the human race is at its apex and will gradually be replaced by its own invention of AI machines, which is what all civilisations would eventually do. I've been meaning to write a post about that (because 'alien' arrival here on this planet, should it ever happen, would not be a biological contact).
Last edited by Brian-H on Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

John-B wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:49 pm There have been endless reports that one of the aliens found in the Roswell crashed UFO was found alive. Today's TV added the comment that he was restored to health (no explanation how) and US military people eventually managed to talk with him and discovered that he was the craft's engineer. How would humans and aliens learn to communicate with each other?

The programme said that information he gave helped American designers to achieve radar invisibility and propulsion methods. The Canadian Avro saucer which barely got off the ground was taken back to USA where the Americans changed the propulsion to something that worked. I've seen a photo of large and medium sized circular flying saucers outside a hangar with a lot of technicians standing in front, apparently posing specially for a photo at some kind of celebration. Another result of alien help was the drone X-47B.
Image

I find it difficult to believe these stories, but so many people are now in their last days alive and deciding to say what they know and break the secrecy that the stories may have some truth.
That picture resembles a "4 x 6" inch for sale on ebay.com for $4.90 https://www.ebay.com/itm/183908104895
Image

Here's the original photo before fakers got to it (note the Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket in the foreground)
flying_disc_edwards_afb_original.jpg
actual fake
Flying_Disc_edwards_afb_1.jpg
Below - Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket being towed
Image

Below - Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket removed and fake flying saucer inserted
Image

Below - An earlier Douglas D-558-1 Skystreak on its own
flying_disc_edwards_afb_2.jpg
Below - Douglas D-558-1 Skystreak removed and fake flying saucer inserted - note that the chaps have been moved to the left and down a bit (download both pics and compare the chaps)
flying_disc_edwards_afb_3.jpg
[note - post edited - added a few more pics as and when I found them]



In my last days alive I'll also decide to say what I know and break the secrecy.
Sneak preview - I don't actually live anywhere in the UK, I live on my 500 acre ranch in the USA. I bought the ranch using money from the profits of making loads of sci-fi books and films. I also financially backed loads of pseudo-documentaries and get royalties when they air on TV.
Sometimes, knowing it all to be fiction, I feel the need to debunk the TV stuff, then other times I make youtube videos agreeing with it all. This way it all gets aired on TV again and again, so I get more royalties
(it's costly running a 500 acre ranch) :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

Buy your own kit to build a life-size model (no more need for photoshop)
FlyingDiscLarge_plastic1.jpg
FlyingDiscLarge_plastic2.jpg

Build that, get quite a few leaf blowers, take it to a crop field next summer, put some lights under it, put it on a pole with leaf blowers in the crop, take some shaky videos - hey presto you've got a UFO crop circle video :idea:

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by John-B »

I'm not surprised that there are so many fake photos, it's a subject that encourages it.

What is clear from the TV programmes is that the Americans and Russians had lots of experimental craft with very odd shapes that flew in the cold war but were never successful and abandoned. Many look very like UFOs when viewed at a distance.
I can't believe that alien UFOs would crash so often, they would be better built.
Reports that UFOs were chased or escorted by military jets must indicate experimental craft built by humans.
However, the programmes are interesting because they show some of the experimental craft that were secret until recently.

I can never understand why designers expected a circular craft with jet engines facing sideways all around the perimeter could achieve horizontal flight as it would just spin. I have, though, seen a diagram of how airfow underneath could create a vortex underneath raising the craft upwards. This is probably why the Canadian Avrocar only managed to fly a few inches above ground.

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by Brian-H »

Long read coming, but here goes ....

I'm sorry to say but the claims on TV, about the Americans and Russians having lots of experimental craft with very odd shapes, are just bunkum.

The basic rule of thumb is that any aircraft needs maximum lift for minimum drag (just like an F1 car needs maximum down-force for minimum drag). That rule of thumb has been understood ever since Sir George Cayley stated the principles for flight in 1799. I do sometimes guffaw when I watch some of the b.s. on TV which involve claims about "odd shaped aircraft" - even the Germans (or especially the Germans) stuck to those principles.

Let's take the German Horten Ho 229 "flying wing" as a good example. The reason they developed this was because Göring wanted a plane that could "carry 1,000 kilograms of bombs a distance of 1,000 kilometres with a speed of 1,000 kilometres per hour". Because the Junkers Jumo jet engine was already in use (in the Messerschmitt Me 262), Reimar and Walter Horten decided that, in order to meet Göring's spec, a flying wing with a jet engine was the only way to do so. Note that a flying wing was not a new concept, they chose it because it has lower drag and, with a jet engine, high lift. There are claims that it was also an early "stealth" aircraft, but in reconstructions undertaken in 2008, the only reason why it had a somewhat reduced radar signature was due to the use of wood in part of the wing (thus by extension, I might claim that the de Havilland Mosquito was built of wood as a stealth fighter bomber). I did see one TV program where it was also stated that the Russians fitted a much higher powered jet engine to a captured Ho 229 and were astounded that it flew at Mach 2 (guffaw at 200 decibels).

Now let's move on to the Avro Canada VZ-9 Avrocar - so-called "secret flying saucer". Before looking at its engine, we need to look at the Power Jets W.2 jet engine which was Frank Whittle's early design based on his 1930 patent. Unlike all 4-stroke or 2-stroke reciprocating internal combustion engines (which rely on either compressing an air-fuel mixture and then igniting it, or compressing air and then squirting fuel into it) a jet engine is an internal combustion engine that can continuously burn compressed air and fuel in a combustion chamber, because the air is instead continually pre-compressed by a turbine (aka fan).

In Whittle's design, there were several "reverse flow" combustion chambers outside the turbine, see the cutaway of the similar RR Welland below
(inlet on the right, blue is cold air, orange is combustion and also "exhaust" or thrust areas).
jet 450px-Rolls-Royce_Welland_cut_away.jpg
Note that Whittle used this design due to his concern about materials available at the time, and also to keep the engine short. Hans von Ohain drastically altered this design in 1937 by making it all axial, as in the Junkers Jumo see below
jet Junkers_Jumo_004.jpg
The 1941 de Havilland Goblin removed the reverse-flow but kept multiple combustion chambers, keeping it short see below
jet DH_Goblin.jpg
jet DH_Goblin.jpg (25.69 KiB) Viewed 96947 times
Now we come to John Carver "Jack" Frost, who worked at de Havilland in 1942 on jets using the Goblin engine, then joined Avro Canada in 1947, and then in 1952 he started their "Special Projects Group". He designed a new type of engine layout with the combustion chambers outside the outer rim of the centrifugal compressor, but pointing outwards like the spokes on a wheel. The turbine drove the compressor using gearing, rather than a shaft.
The resulting engine was arranged in the form of a large disk, which he referred to as a "pancake engine". The jet thrust exited from around the entire rim of the engine, and this presented problems trying to adapt the design to a typical aircraft.

Meanwhile, some strategists in the USA were concerned about a possible nuclear "first strike" by the Russians in Europe, and they wanted aircraft that could take off without runways - VTOL. Frost came up with a craft that used the Coandă effect
and said that, by using his engine, if ducted around a suitable shaped craft, lift would be obtained - see below.
jet Coanda_effect_6.jpg
Frost believed/hoped that, somehow, his engine could produce stable lift and then somehow also give some forward thrust (a bit like a helicopter does). The reason why nobody was using a conventional jet engine to do this, was because the Hawker Siddeley Harrier did not obtain first VTOL flight until 1967. Note also that, around the time the Harrier jump-jet made its first public flight, an original Avrocar was put in a museum in the USA (so no truth to "hidden secret flying saucers")

If you watch this youtube video of the Avrocar, you'll see how rubbish it was. Basically no better than (in fact, useless in comparison to) Sir Christopher Cockerell's SR.N1 Hovercraft as seen in this this youtube video. The SR.N1 made its first crossing of the English Channel in 1959. It's strange that nobody refers to this as a "flying saucer".
Image

There were a few propeller driven aircraft in the 30s and 40s that used circular-shaped wings for some weird reason, but they never got anywhere mainly because they broke the rule of "max lift for min drag". See Arup S2, Sack AS 6, Vought V-173 flying pancake (now in a museum in the USA), Vought XF5U

To conclude, there never was, never will be, any man-made or alien-made saucer-shaped craft that flies high through the skies, because a saucer shape provides no inherent use for flight - except as a Frisbee. [How about a boomerang with jet engines - Noooo don't even think about it]. Furthermore, should anti-gravity exist, rather than put it into a saucer, why not just build it into a house ?


If you want total codswallop, these 3 websites are a laugh
https://www.manmade-ufos.com/usaf-flying-saucer
http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/03/ ... -for-real/
http://www.laesieworks.com/ifo/lib/USDiscWing.html

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Re: UFOs & Aliens

Post by AntonyB »

Maybe too lowbrow for this highbrow discussion thread, but to re-iterate an earlier comment, I would also be very interested to see a photograph, or scanned image of the Eagle SP250 centrefold.
Antony

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