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Waterless coolant

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
Brian-H
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Brian-H »

marchesmark wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:25 pm Really? I don't think that's what this thread is saying at all.

It's like the UFO thread, lots of myths but no real science.

The only real science that I've read in this thread is in the area of the heat conductivity, which is the only genuine argument against the stuff. But it depends on the original assumptions that the engineers made when they dimensioned the cooling, which nobody on this forum or any other car forum, will know.

It really starts with the combustion efficiency of the engine, and if you take petrol engines as the start, the best you'll get is ~30% efficiency. The rule of thumb is "a third, a third, a third" at the best point of the BSFC curve i.e. a third of the heat goes to the tyres pushing the car along, a third of the heat goes out of the exhaust, and a third of the heat is lost into the cooling system. But in IC engines, especially petrol engines, this is generally not the case because they rarely run at their best point of BSFC and, unless on a racetrack, rarely run anywhere near full power for very long. Thus it's difficult to be able to faithfully calculate the heat that the cooling system has to cope with.

If you read the responses from several contributors, you'll glean all of the above is mentioned in various ways, and, since an unpressurised cooling system is on an old design of car engine, it was likely over-dimensioned from the start. So if the engine and radiator have both been thoroughly de-scaled and cleaned out, and since these engines are not "performance" engines, their cooling systems will cope with this waterless cooling. For pressurised cooling it's more difficult to be sure.

EDIT - just a thought (and I might have already read this in the thread or in one of the links) if there is a problem, the analogy is with fitting the wrong thermostat, thus by induction, if one wanted use the stuff then a change of thermostat would solve any OCD concerns.

Sydsmith
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Sydsmith »

Don't really comprehend all the technical talk about heat dissipation so leaving aside the science, what happens if you "fit" this really expensive water substitute, what happens if at a later stage in pure ignorance someone adds water to top up the system? What sort of damage would it do? It would break your heart if you filled the car and then a slow leak seeped it all away over night. Syd

Brian-H
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Brian-H »

What happens if someone puts OAT coolant into IAT coolant ?

Basically, would you let anyone else near your car's oil or coolant ? And if you sell the car, you tell the buyer.

It would also break my heart if I'd spent a lot of time and money on anything and something went wrong. It's not that different in those terms.

No idea why I'm arguing for the people who are using it, I'm not, got no intention of doing so, just that I'm a typical Brit who likes to fight for the underdog I guess.

Rolf B.
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Rolf B. »

@ Brian-H:

The advantage of the cooling system of my 1933 Daimler 15 over younger models of this series is - there's no thermostat, which means the large cooling circuit is permanentely open. Then there's written in the owner's manual the fan shall only be fitted, when the outside temperature is very high, but at my car the fan belt is fitted at all times. So I'm not afraid to overheat the cooling system and in addition the temperatur gauge is always under control because, while driving, it is directly in front of my view at the top of the radiator.

@ Sydsmith:

There are only two guys laying hands on the car - my eldest son and I. And if there should unexpectedly be another person trying to add water into the EVAN's filled cooling system, then there're two red stickers from EVAN's at which is unmistakably written: Don't fill with water!

One sticker is at the unpressurised filler cap of the expansion tank and the other one is under the bonnet at the cover over the header tank directly beside the filler neck at which the temperatur gauge is fitted. So, I think there'll be no risk that somebody will top up with water.

I've invested so much money in restoring the Fifteen, a multiple sum of worth of the car, I don't risk to ruin the engine which alone has cost an horrendous sum of recreation (e.g. laser welding several very liong cracks by frost damage of the engine block). And therefore our Fifteen is a family member and when I'll be to old sometime to drive this little lady, I'll hand her over to my elder son as I've already done with two other cars and two motorbikes. So the risk of an new owner out of the family isn't given. ;)

Happy new year to all of you from the continent, keep well & fit and I hope to come over to York in summer to participate the International Rally - maybe with "Little Fifteen"

Rolf

Sydsmith
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Sydsmith »

Did not anticipate those responses. I would have thought your points about care of our cars was a given, you are not unique in being particular about how and who is involved with them, I am certain all who invest in and care for classic cars do the same, why would they not?

The simple question I asked, which was no criticism of the coolant or the wisdom of using this coolant, but a purely practical question. Given there are labels supplied and as long as they stay in place and are read I can see in a sensible situation they should suffice, but this is not a perfect world and mistakes do happen.

As I read this, there is a very strict requirement to remove every drop of water from the cooling system before using the coolant, it would appear that the smallest drop is harmful, but I am asking what harm is that? What would happen if you did not get every drop out of the system or as I asked originally if someone in an extreme, stupid, unintended, purely accidental or even an intentionally destructive situation (a vindictive ex for instance) added water to the system? Syd

Rolf B.
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Rolf B. »

A maximum of 3% of water in EVANS coolant is without any difficulty.

In an emergency situation you can fill up with water. EVANS cooling is mixing with water and isn't foaming. But then there'll be again the bad physical characteristics of water.

Christopher Storey
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Christopher Storey »

I think I'll stick to drinking snake oil

Brian-H
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Re: Waterless coolant

Post by Brian-H »

On the main Evans website it says

Recommended by many 4 x 4 specialists and race teams including: Twisted, Jaguar Land Rover Classic Works, Bearmach and Off Road Armoury.

Evans Coolants have been Technical Partners to Honda since 2011. All Honda MX and Dakar works teams use Evans Powersports

Eagle restore and re-engineer the world's finest E-Type Jaguars and factory fill their engines with Evans Classic Cool 180°

RC Moss, a leading specialist in the restoration and maintenance of vintage Bentleys, uses and recommends Vintage Cool 180°

Noble Automotive are the latest super car manufacturer to partner with Evans Coolants and factory fill with Power Cool 180°


Article on Evans joins forces with the Honda World Motocross Team

Article on Historic Victory at Dakar 2020
Image

$49.95 for 1 gallon (presumably a US gallon) https://www.evanscoolant.com/products/h ... e-coolant/


I might contact Evans and ask them for some contribution for backing them up :lol:

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