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Ethanol in petrol

Technical issues not related to a DLOC car marque, eg tyres, ethanol, other car makes, etc. and legal, political and insurance
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NickDeAth
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Ethanol in petrol

Post by NickDeAth »

Hello Gents, I was looking at You Tube videos the other day and came across this. Is it really that easy to remove ethanol? It almost seems one of those "too good to be true" things. Anybody tried it?



If I haven't done the link correctly the video is called How To Remove Ethanol From Unleaded Fuel.

Nick
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Brian-H
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Brian-H »

Very interesting and looks/sounds genuine to me.

Having said that, I don't fancy going through that process every time I want to fill up. There's also the problem of where to dispose of the excess 'fluid'. In the long run it's much easier to buy expensive ethanol-free petrol - e.g. 99 RON ?

Stan Thomas
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Stan Thomas »

Assuming the process is genuine, then surely somone could invent a device to install in the car to seperate the ethonol.

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captain bobo
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by captain bobo »

Fascinating! I wonder what dye he used in the water. Was the dye added to make it easier to see, or does it play some part in assisting the transfer of ethanol from the petrol to the water?
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Petelang »

Too bad you can't get a rebate on the 13 pence per litre that you've paid for the ethanol. The other good question which remains unaddressed is what would you do with the hundreds of litres of contaminated water you are left with? Surely it can't go in the drains, yet would be absolutely useless for any other purpose?
Nice idea but a bit of a flaw in the workings.
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Brian-H
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Brian-H »

captain bobo wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:42 am Fascinating! I wonder what dye he used in the water. Was the dye added to make it easier to see, or does it play some part in assisting the transfer of ethanol from the petrol to the water?
I think I heard him refer to it as "fruit colouring", it's also known as "food colouring" https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133555669915 all those "E" numbers.
It's only to make the water more visible when you come to draining it back out (using the tap at the bottom).

Petelang wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:25 am Too bad you can't get a rebate on the 13 pence per litre that you've paid for the ethanol.
Very good point. Quick calculation - if it costs say ~£130 in parts to DIY replace the various parts affected by the ethanol, then after 1000 litres (220 gallons, 4,400 miles @ 20 mpg) it's now costing more money to keep on going through that palava.

Petelang wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:25 am The other good question which remains unaddressed is what would you do with the hundreds of litres of contaminated water you are left with? Surely it can't go in the drains, yet would be absolutely useless for any other purpose?
Nice idea but a bit of a flaw in the workings.
Great minds think alike Peter .....
Brian-H wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:33 pm There's also the problem of where to dispose of the excess 'fluid'.
Someone called "Bob Beattie" raised this question in the comments under the video.
If you use this link then pause the video and then scroll down you should see the "Bob Beattie" comment listed first, then click on "view 9 replies" to see an interesting discussion (well for youtube it's interesting). Ends with someone else saying "ethanol fuel mix is a volatile chemical and classed as hazardous waste, you don't just pour it down the drain, unless you're a cretin" [note that by "ethanol fuel mix", I think it's on the assumption that a small amount of petrol will also be drawn off as you drain to the end of the coloured water]

NickDeAth
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by NickDeAth »

Good point about the waste product. I didn't give a thought to waste disposal I just couldn't believe it would be that easy to extract the ethanol.
If you heated the waste water/ethanol mixture would the ethanol evaporate first?

Nick
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Brian-H
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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Brian-H »

^ maybe make a large shallow "tin" (large surface area), pour it in, and leave it to evaporate ?

Another discussion that I noticed under the video - "Now we need a video on distilling the ethanol out to drinking purity" click here pause video, scroll down to first listed comment, click on "view 10 replies"

But as Peter pointed out, one is just chucking away 13 pence per litre, cheaper to either replace parts, or to buy higher octane fuel which doesn't have ethanol in the first place.

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Re: Ethanol in petrol

Post by Chris_R »

Rather than try to avoid E10 fuel I think we should be looking on ways to adapt fuel systems and so embrace and use the fuel, not be like King Canute attempting to hold back the flow of change. The derogation for E5 Super Unleaded is only for 5 years at which time the subject will come back again. The derogation also only applies to filling stations selling in excess of 1 million litres of petrol in a year and where they sell more than one grade of petrol. If the site only sells a single grade it will not be forced to sell the protection grade.
95% of all petrol sold is standard unleaded, super unleaded therefore representing a very small proportion of sales, this proportion will fall off over time as fewer cars will need it. Classic cars represent just one tenth of one percent of petrol sales and even if they all move to buying super unleaded the volumes will still be insignificant.
I think of more concern should be the decline in the number of filling stations and the continued availability of petrol. Petrol has been a declining market for the last 30 years (diesel has grown to take over) and in 2019 it was half the volume of 1990. Electric cars are here to stay and while today only 7% of new cars are all electric that percentage will grow rapidly and I think the tipping point where new sales become the majority will come quite soon, in perhaps only another 6 or 7 years, a couple of years before the cutoff for the sale of new ICE cars. As they become more widespread the demand for petrol will drop and consequently many more filling stations will become uneconomic and close. It may end up that petrol is only available at major supermarkets (mainly Tesco and Sainsburys) and on motorways and major trunk roads. Supermarkets currently have less than 20% of the forecourts but almost 50% of the market.
Petrol tanks underground have a lifespan of 20 - 30 years after which they will need to be replaced at a significant cost. I cannot see any company investing the money to replace an underground super unleaded tank for 5% or less of the business when they know the life of the product may be limited. They will simply stop selling more than one grade of petrol.

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