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Consort - family owned from new

Car histories: owners, dates, etc. restorations, events visited, holidays, stories about the car, etc. plus statistics like numbers and models produced.
Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

classiclife wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:25 am Excellent progress, Brain, along with interesting technical insights.

Well done and keep up the good work; in addition thanks for taking time out to update the thread which in itself is time consuming.

Regards.

Richard.
Thanks Richard.

After my initial spurt of curiosity in this thread back in April 2020 on construction techniques used on the Consort, it was the idea of removal of the headlining in my grandfather's car that held me back from looking at what was going on above the B pillars in this car. After a year of "should I, shan't I" and other dillydallying, about 4 weeks ago (Monday 22nd March) I resigned myself to the fact that there was no other way than to begin to remove the headlining - and as I got into it, I could see that it was not concealing a Pandora's box.

That plywood side section could easily be filled and put back with the B pillar, indeed I might do that temporarily as I'll need to transport the car somewhere for a respray of the body (with all the doors and wings off the car and windscreens out of the car - I'm currently removing the rear windscreen, which is very troublesome.). I'm also considering putting the head back onto the engine just to get it running, so that I can move the car around under its own 'steam'.

It's a shame that there are no photos of the Daimler factory showing various stages of assembly of various models.
I suspect that they assembled the Consort thus
1. built the cabin floor/sills section onto the rolling chassis, followed by boot floor and the front scuttle
2. erected the aluminium and wood skeleton onto the boot/cabin floor and scuttle - possibly with jigs and cross-bracing to hold it all 'square'
3. then attached pre-shaped boot and sides, the rear windscreen area, the roof, the front windscreen area, welding the parts together and screwing onto the aluminium/wood skeleton in places (there's evidence of hidden screws all over the place).

If I'd known this back in 1975 there is no way that I'd have had 6 people in the back and 4 others in the front with me crammed in the front right - that probably increased the overall weight from 1.5 to ~2.2 tons :shock: and yet it survives to this day.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

After searching on the internet for pictures of "Daimler Coventry factory 1930s" and "Daimler Coventry factory 1950s" all I found of any close ups of anything similar from those eras was this Riley RMA 1946 (apparently the Riley RMA also used a wooden framework )
Riley_RMA_Durbar_Avenue_1946.jpg
There was also a picture of the Daimler factory in the 1950s from science photo library but it's watermarked, so you'll have to click on this link https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0 ... _1950s.jpg ...... looks like Conquests (?) on a nicely laid out shop floor, far less cramped than the Riley factory.

The interesting thing is that in both the Riley picture and the Daimler picture, the car bodies seem to be on a jig (?) which is on a rail, so at some point they had to lift the body onto the rolling chassis - presumably using hooks at the sills (?)

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

I've removed the rear window and I'll do the write-up later as that was more difficult than one would expect. Note that I've gone back and edited the title of previous "rear window removal" to "rear quarter-light window removal" .


Meanwhile I've found some articles in a box in the loft, which I'd forgotten that I had - and I cannot remember where I got them from (for various reasons, must have been in the last 15 years).



DLOC DB18 Seminar 27th September 2003 by David Beales - I didn't attend the seminar and I honestly don't know how I got hold of this
DSCF3106.JPG


Daimler Consort Engine Overhaul on a Budget by Peter Wimpenny - copy from The Driving Member April 1992 (Part 2 Mechanical Overhaul and Part 3 Bodywork presumably in later editions) again I don't know how I got hold of this
DSCF3108.JPG
What I found interesting is that Peter Wimpenny's articles resemble, albeit in condensed style, the youtube videos by Denis Leys. An interesting paragraph in the bodywork section reads "There is no structural woodwork, no stressed steel body panels and there is not the profusion of bulboid curves which are used on the model's immediate successors, the Conquest and Regency of 1953. The Consort body could be described as semi-coach built. There is a standard steel body braced by a strong cast aluminium frame which rises from the chassis outriggers either side of the scuttle, the door pillars and the rear wheel arches. The steel bodywork is therefore unstressed and has an angular 'square-rigged' shape inherited from pre-war origins".



Finally, Ralph Cartwright describes the restoration of his Daimler DB18 - I've no idea when or whether this was in the DM and again I don't know how I got hold of this
DSCF3110.JPG
This is a highly condensed restoration and includes a paragraph "The floor was removed after I fell through it whilst retrieving the rear seats. Headlining and interior trim were removed, doors and wings removed, sunroof, dashboard etc until we had a bare shell. When eventually the boot was opened it brought with it the rear body frame. "



Both of the above cars required considerably more restoration than my grandfather's car, yet there is no mention of the gutter widths or any attempt to discover the state of the plywood side-section at the top of the B pillar - maybe I'm worrying about absolutely nothing and should just use wood filler on the plywood piece that I've taken out, and just put it back in !!!

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Rear Window Removal

Because I'm going to get the car re-sprayed, and as I've already removed both doors and the rear quarter-light on the driver's side and will do the same on the passenger side, I thought I might as well remove the rear window.

To do this, all the tacks and finishing strips on the lower half of the rear headlining have to come out. The complete headlining is in 3 sections - the main front section (removed 6 weeks ago), and then the rear section comprises an upper piece and a lower piece. Since I'd already removed the main front section I removed the rear upper piece next, but from what I can make out, the upper piece and front section could both remain in situ if rear window removal was the only task - but it might be fiddly distinguishing which tacks to remove so that the lower headlining piece was separated from everything else (and then it won't come away because it's held into the window - see later).

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the window in place with the upper headlining piece removed. All I have is the picture below from which you can see that there's a load of tacks which form the 'boundary' between the upper and lower piece. This area had a finishing strip of headlining wrapped round a thin piece of plywood which is pinned on top the the strip of tacks in the picture. That finishing strip just pulls away, leaving most of the pins behind with all the tacks. The rear parcel shelf would also have to come out (which I'd already removed)
DSCF2976.JPG
The glass with its rubber seal is sandwiched between two oval shaped pieces of plywood. The gap in the steel for the window has a lip, and the rear oval shaped piece of plywood runs round the lip and is held in place by ribs 7 and 8 (as labelled in one of the pics in "rear plywood section"). You can see the arrangement in the picture below, taken with the window and rubber seal still in place, but after the front oval shaped plywood piece and all headlining has been removed.
DSCF3090.JPG
The front oval shaped plywood piece is screwed into the rear oval shaped plywood piece by 16 screws, and after 70 years these screws will not come out. I managed to get one out, tried the tactic of drilling holes round a couple of others, but that didn't help at all. So I went onto ebay and bought a 10mm hole cutter and waited for that to arrive. Using that hole cutter to cut into the front oval shaped plywood piece, round each of the remaining screws, the front plywood piece came away (with the lower headlining piece still attached, because it's glued to the back of the plywood piece). In the picture above you can see some of the screws still in the rear plywood piece, with the wooden 'hole' still round the screw.

Below is a picture of the back of the front plywood piece, with headlining still attached.
DSCF3060.JPG

The thickness of the front plywood piece is about 8 veneer pieces, but the bottom half was heavily delaminated and that area fell apart into several pieces. The picture below shows the front of the front plywood piece with the headlining now removed from the piece. Most of the 10mm holes are visible.
'
DSCF3086.JPG
So if you ever need to renew the rear window and/or its seal, it's definitely not easy !!
Once the front oval shaped piece is removed, the window and its seal simply pull/push into the car.

I've placed an order with Beales for new seals for the front windscreen, rear quarter-lights, rear window and boot/locker (along with several other bits and pieces).

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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Vulgalour »

That is an astonishingly comprehensive look at the (de)construction of this car. It really highlights how difficult it is to get in and do any repairs. Thank you for taking the time to write it up, that's sure to be useful to people trying to understand their own cars and where problems might be.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Thanks Angyl.

Presumably it'll help not just on the Consort but across all the DB18 range, as well as Lanchesters built in the same era as the DB18 range, and maybe Rileys too.

The only thing that lets it down a bit is some of the pictures. The one I've been using is about 8 years old, a 12 MP Fuji with optical zoom, but my son's mobile phone takes better pictures (I think it's a recent Samsung) - see the pics of the plywood section on the previous page, taken by him with it leaning against a gate, my camera just struggled whatever I tried to do. I'm also thinking of taking some videos. Either way I need something which will adapt to the varied lighting conditions I've had when working.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Well it's time for a confession - I've already informed Marcel and Graham - :!: I have two other Consorts :!:

I bought the first of the other two on ebay auction in 2008, based only on a few pics in the ad. I considered that the engine would be a swap straight into my grandfather's car, as I'd taken the head off the engine in the latter car in 2003 because the head gasket had gone for the umpteenth time (yep skim etc req'd). The price I paid for the complete car plus trailer hire plus fuel for 300 mile round trip was less than £1,000. When I got there it was faced inwards in a lock up garage, it wouldn't start, and the brakes were seized. Managed to hand-winch it out onto the trailer rear end first (!!), took it home, put a charger on the battery overnight, and it started in the morning, so I drove it off the trailer.

I'm fairly sure that I saw this particular Consort at a Daimler event somewhere in the East Midlands in about 1984, as the bumpers are painted black, it has square indicators fitted front and back, and the rear bumper is fitted to a thick iron girder forming a tow bar. The fuel lines in the engine bay have been rearranged, including a sight glass.

But the strange thing is that the number plates on the car are not as per the V5 and the reg on the plates comes up on .gov as unknown. The V5 has a different reg which is on the .gov website. There isn't a VIN plate on the bulkhead, the VIN on the chassis is held on with one screw, and that VIN matches the V5.

I ended up doing nothing with the car, and over the years filler appeared all over the car, especially down each side of the roof, where the gutters had been pulled down (not removed), filler put in, then gutter put back with tacks. The box sections holding the front bumper are also shedding filler, as are the sills, and all the wings.

I bought the second of the other two in 2018, it's actually in the gallery on db18.org. It's all original and when you consider it's 70 years old, it really is fabulous. I did go and test drive the car and inspected it underneath as much as possible - it has the original Girling-Bijur system still in place. I left a deposit, went home and this time hired a low-loader then went and picked it up. Round trip was about 200 miles each time.

But the lubrication system was dry, and I spent weeks and weeks checking every single one of the 17 lubrication points, re-priming each one separately, then the piping. The brakes also needed some attention, and the carb dripped petrol so I bought a "super dry" kit for the carb. It wasn't until autumn 2019 that I finally took it out on the road. I bought it because, between having a car in original condition and a bodged car, I could judge what was right and what was wrong with my grand-father's Consort - only the gutters it seems and I'm not going to bodge those the same way.

My plans are to sell the 2018 car, not at a profit, just want to recoup what I paid for it. I just need to tweak a few more things on it and then take it for an MOT, that way I 'd feel confident in rejecting any offer less than what I paid for it.

Plans for the "2008" car - as the body is a mess (sills, wings, wood in the roof sides and in boot all shot) , I'm tempted to buy a welder and experiment with the car e.g. reinforce the roof (fit a roll cage), do the sills differently, remove the wings and fit mud-guards (?), upgrade the brakes and steering, fit a powerful electric motor, and it lives again :evil:

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

.
Last edited by Brian-H on Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Having removed all of the front suspension and engine and gearbox from my grandfather's Consort in the past and successfully renovated and replaced them, and now recently removed all the interior, the only thing I've never attempted to remove (forward of the C pillar) is the steering column.

Not wishing or having the need to remove the steering column from my grandfather's Consort, I've removed it from the "2008" Consort (in pics above). I'll try to describe the issues when taking it out later on, but what I will say now is that, although it might be possible to remove the steering column with the front wings etc still in place, the trouble taken to initially remove front wings and rad as a unit, probably ends up taking a lot less time and effort overall in the long run.

Once removed, it's interesting to see the steering box and the long 'stator' tube, inside which the cable runs from the Lucas "control head unit" (horn and trafficator switch) into the rest of the loom.

Here are 4 photos as a taster

Steering column out, steering box standing upright (propped against an axle stand on the left, steering wheel and control head unit already removed)
20210726_142954_.jpg


Same as above, but with long lower tube or 'stator' tube removed and at side of column (the end piece has a seal at the lower left end, close up to come later)
20210726_143137.jpg


Long lower tube or 'stator' tube with control head unit and its cable
20210726_143935_.jpg


Close up of control head unit with top end of 'stator' tube - showing how the slot in the latter and 'dimples' in the former should line up
20210726_143947_.jpg

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

There's a lot of fiddling about to get the steering column out, all made a lot easier and quicker by firstly following these instruction to remove the front bodywork (wings and radiator combined)
remove_front_bodywork.jpg

Below are the instruction for removal of the steering column, quite easy once the front bodywork is out of the way.
Picture4.jpg

Where it says "draw off drop arm" you can instead just knock it off from above while it's still in the car. No photo taken at the time but photo below shows the technique (this drop-arm shaft and drop-arm assembly is not out of any of the cars, it's just a "dummy" that I picked up a long time ago).
20210726_200825_.jpg

The "steering gear clamp bracket" is shown in the photo below (this is not out of any of the cars, again it's just a "dummy" that I picked up a long time ago). If the drop arm has not been removed then the steering column will not come out, because there's not enough room between engine block and clamp bracket to manoeuvre the drop-arm shaft with drop-arm still attached - there's not even enough room to get the clamp bracket end-piece out of the way either. The drop-arm shaft can only be withdrawn outwards from the bore of the clamp bracket - there's no point doing anything else in the removal procedure until the drop-arm is off, so start with getting the drop-arm off first. Note that there's no need to remove the clamp bracket from the chassis (and it probably won't come out unless the engine is removed).
20210726_201021_.jpg
Next, details of the steering box internals, and close up of the seal that keeps the oil in the steering box .....

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