Consort - family owned from new

[Brian-H]

^ quite a few edits in the previous post on the gutter removal - new pic and more detail added ^

Removal of Front Wood (ash) Section

With the 8 gutter screws and the 2 rib screws removed, there only remains 2 screw-head bolts in the end of the A pillar, and likewise in the top of the B pillar. These came out very easily.

Slightly blurred pic below of the screw heads in the end of the A pillar, nuts on top (not shown) and you just undo the nuts then withdraw the screws.

Better pic below of the screw heads in the top of the B pillar, again nuts on top (not shown) and you just undo the nuts then withdraw the screws.

Ash piece removed below - B pillar would be to the left in both pics. Length = 20 inches.
Top side below - note the slots for the ash ribs, and the slope at the lower edge, which is the side into the roof.

Underside below - note the 4 remaining gutter screws (towards the top in the pic, which is the side into the roof), with slightly mangled heads so that the gutter could come away, and also so that the ash piece could tilt out over the roof lip.

NOTE - when removing the front ash section it's best to keep the rear door permanently shut, or at least, make sure the front door is shut before opening the rear door, and vice versa. Better still, remove both doors from the B pillar, as described in B pillar removal next.

[Brian-H]

Related to gutter removal, here is a pic of 4 screws which came out of the rear plywood section when removing the gutter - most of the 24 screws were either similar, or the heads just snapped off.

I have more than 4 pics to show related to B Pillar, so 2 posts #1/#2

B Pillar Removal #1

Before removing the B pillar the doors have to come off - and it's not a bad idea to remove the doors earlier than at this stage.

The problem is removing the pins from the hinges - it can be extremely difficult and best done with help from an assistant.

I didn't take pics of the hinges with the doors still on the pillar, so I've taken 2 pics of the hinges with the pins placed back

Upper hinge shown below - the pin on the left came out fairly easily, the one on the right was more difficult

Lower hinge shown below - the pin on the left was as difficult as the one on the upper right hinge, the pin on the lower right hinge was extremely difficult

The pic below shows all 4 pins - from the left they are upper left pin, upper right pin, lower left pin, lower right pin

The somewhat blunted centre punch was what I used, along with a large lump hammer. One person to ensure that the centre punch is dead centre and isn't drifting off centre, whilst also holding the centre punch - the other person to wield the lump hammer. The lower right pin started to splay out as the centre punch went into the bottom of the pin without the pin moving, so we cut it off flush with hinge bottom and started again, this time it decided to move.

When the pin starts to move, it does get a bit easier. The centre punch was too wide half way up, so then switched to using the pin which had come out of the upper left - this pin must be very slightly less in diameter as it moves relatively freely through all the hinges.

Note that I sprayed penetrating oil several times over a couple of days, before starting, and also when each was moving. There isn't enough room to consider drilling them out - so they have to come out using brute force.

[Brian-H]

B Pillar Removal #2

Once the doors are off, there's arguably no need to remove the B pillar. But once the top plate is unbolted (plus both wood sections along the roof side out), the B pillar serves no purpose and is only held at the floor, and the floor bolts come out fairly easily.

The pic below shows top of the B pillar before the front ash section was removed - ash section to the left, plywood to the right

I also sprayed the nuts with penetrating oil a couple of days beforehand, but they came undone easily anyway. At the time when I started to remove the B pillar, the 2 bolts on the left (and ash section on the left) were already out. When the 2 bolts on the right are out, and the bolts in floor plate are out, the B pillar comes out.


Pic below shows the top plate with the B pillar out (2 sets of 8 lolly sticks acting as spacers where the wood sections would be) - driver's door would be to the left, rear passenger door to the right.

Upper side of floor plate of B pillar is below (2 sets of 3 lolly sticks acting as spacers)

There's another plate under the car body with captive nuts, as seen below

With the gutter screws out (and gutter removed) and with the B pillar out, there's only the rib screws in the rear plywood section holding the rear section in. Removal of that to be described next - when I've put it partially back in and taken pics - none taken at the time.

[Brian-H]

I've taken ~100 pictures, different cameras, different settings, and short of making a video, it's very difficult to get across the rear plywood section. I think I can do it in less that 12 pics.

Rear Plywood Section #1
The best way to illustrate is using the passenger side which, apart from trim removal, is still untouched. I also decided to remove the rear wooden panel from back seat into boot, and all the other panels in the boot. No need to do this, but I just wanted to see the condition of the boot and the wood in the boot looking from the inside (and pleasantly relieved to see it all excellent). So some of the pics show a bit of the boot structure.

These first 2 pics below show the perspective of the way wheel arch and a metal panel that's welded to the arch, which then forms the corner of the rear seat area (the rear part of the headlining was glued onto the metal panel)

That metal panel's side is screwed into the plywood section just above where the plywood section is anchored to the aluminium piece which runs over the wheel arch (see also earlier pic here viewtopic.php?p=35998#p35998 )

I've added some half-transparent overlay below

You can see where the aluminium section terminates in the boot, with an anchor point for an ash rib which runs across the top of the boot (ash is overlaid in orange, aluminium is overlaid in yellow, plywood is overlaid in pink)

The pic below shows the same metal panel on the driver's side. I had to unscrew it from the plywood and bend it back so that I could extract the plywood section sideways (no other way).

You can see right into the boot to the right of the panel, and behind the vacant anchor point for the plywood section, you can see the rib in the boot and just make out its anchor point. Also visible is the end of a horizontal rib which the plywood section screws into as well - this horizontal rib runs round under the rear window.

[Brian-H]

Rear Plywood Section #2

The front headlining section, as well as being attached to the sides, was attached to the first 5 ribs as in this pic from the headlining removal

There are 3 more ribs as shown in this pic below

#8 runs round the back of the passenger compartment underneath the rear window, while #7 runs round the back of the passenger compartment above the rear window. #6 is a metal rod, which is secured to a block of wood outlined in red. This block of wood is screwed into rib #7, and the plywood section also screws into the block using four screws.

So to remove the plywood section, you have to undo the screws into ribs 3, 4, 5, 6 (four screws into the block of wood), 7, and 8 - nine screws in total - plus the bolt in the anchor point, plus the metal panel screws. Also note that the horizontal ash piece which runs under the rear quarter-light has 3 "hidden" screws, from the body into the ash. When you locate them, it's best to use a centre punch to knock them further into the wood (leaving 3 small holes in the body).

With the 9 rib screws removed, and with the metal panel bent back, and the 3 body screws out of the way, the plywood section should come out sideways, still attached to the horizontal ash piece. It required an assistant as the far end (towards rib 3 area) makes it unwieldy, as does the ash piece.

Without going to a lot of trouble, the plywood section can be seen lined up in very approximate position in the pic below without ash piece attached - contrast heavily adjusted (that's the best of several pictures and different settings and lighting, all came out dark).

[Brian-H]

Rear Plywood Section #3

A selection out of many pictures of the plywood section (best out of different settings and lighting, problem is the lenght and shape)

Entire section from outside the curvature shown below

Entire section from inside the curvature shown below

End near the B pillar fitting, angled slightly from underneath, shown below

End near the B pillar fitting, from the side, shown below - delamination is apparent here

Final note - excluding the time taken to actually remove the headlining, it's taken longer to write all this up (starting April 4th) than it took to remove the rear quarter-light window, the gutter, the front ash section, the B pillar, and the rear plywood section.

[Brian-H]

Ideas for replacement/improvement

1. Fill in all the screw holes in all the existing wood pieces, then fit all the wood back. I'd need to source some modern sealant strip and new gutter. Then using new screws, just screw it all back together.

2. Get new ash pieces made somewhere - including making the plywood section out of ash. I found this very good youtube video Steam Bending 1 1/2" Kiln Dried Ash - which begs the question, why did Daimler use plywood for the long piece, instead of ash ??

3. My favourite idea - get a quote for having them made out of carbon fibre. Alternatively, make them myself from carbon fibre (I've made small glass fibre parts years ago). I'd have to find out how to weave them to obtain strength, as well as how to screw into the sections.

4. Get the side sections made from aluminium ?? (not sure of the pitfalls there)

5. Throw in the towel (so to speak) and get steel sections shaped and welded in (my son's idea) - if done properly, possibly the quickest solution.

Ultimately, I would like to use the car regularly (except in the winter) so if possible I'd fit seat belts in the front (and an electric motor of course). So 1. and 2. above could be ruled out on that basis.

Overall, from what I've found, the car's condition isn't anywhere near as bad as I'd feared.

[Brian-H]

I forgot about some much better pictures that my son took on his phone at ~15:40 on Wed 31st March.

Here are 4 of them in the order that they were taken, in which you can see the delamination starting at the B pillar end of the plywood (short ash piece is to the right in the pics). You can also see evidence of having soaked the top nuts in penetrating oil the day before I undid them (finding that they were not tight anyway).

[Brian-H]

Another similar 1

These next 3 show the full extent of the curved section.

The plane of the plywood is in the same plane as the roof, suggesting that these long pieces were constructed round a 'former' and then, when dry, the various slots for ribs etc were carved out afterwards.

I'd hazard a guess that Daimler used plywood because (after finding this in wikipedia ) .....

High-strength plywood, also known as aircraft plywood, is made from mahogany, spruce and/or birch using adhesives with an increased resistance to heat and humidity. It was used in the construction of air assault gliders during World War II and also several fighter aircraft, most notably the multi-role British Mosquito. Nicknamed "The Wooden Wonder" plywood was used for the wing surfaces, and also flat sections such as bulkheads and the webs of the wing spars. The fuselage had exceptional rigidity from the bonded ply-balsa-ply ‘sandwich’ of its monocoque shell; elliptical in cross-section, it was formed in two separate mirror-image halves, using curved moulds.

Structural aircraft-grade plywood is most commonly manufactured from African mahogany, spruce or birch veneers that are bonded together in a hot press over hardwood cores of basswood or poplar or from European Birch veneers throughout.

I found African Mahogany Veneer 15 cm x 290 cm x 0.6 mm on ebay (£15 per strip) , and one method is to soak them in water to get flexibility, bend them round a 'former', clamp in place and wait for them to dry, then repeat using glue. if I were to do something like that, I'd source veneer strips from somewhere other than ebay.

Alternatively, I'd prefer to find somewhere to get them custom made for me, because if I go down the DIY route, carbon fibre is preferable. Indeed carbon fibre is sometimes said to be the modern plywood, as it's lighter, far stronger, and doesn't delaminate or succumb to rot. However, if the entire piece were made from solid carbon fibre it would be heavier than the solid plywood equivalent, so it needs to be hollow. Building a long curved piece with a hollow core adds difficulty to making it - the quality of the outer moulds is the key to making carbon fibre, the 'inner core' could possibly be just papier mache left in situ. This sounds a more pleasing venture to me than plywood, and I'm even starting to think of making the gutters from carbon fibre - and ultimately the wings too ('blue skies' thinking).

[classiclife]

Excellent progress, Brain, along with interesting technical insights.

Well done and keep up the good work; in addition thanks for taking time out to update the thread which in itself is time consuming.

Regards.

Richard.