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Consort - family owned from new

Car histories: owners, dates, etc. restorations, events visited, holidays, stories about the car, etc. plus statistics like numbers and models produced.
Norfolk Lad
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Norfolk Lad »

Now you are certain you will produce the first electric Consort it will be good to see a progress report on how the work is going , clearly you now have some support to tackle this task and help you follow it to completion .
Hope you succeed but am sure you have gained the help of a Forum member who can advise and show you how to tackle those things you will need help with.
I GUESS IT IS KEEP WATCHING THIS SPACE GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY MOTORING FOR THE FUTURE.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Thanks Peter, yes I'm "starting" to get into the job. I'll show the progress as I go along, as and when there's something useful to show.

The problem is that I've got 101 other things in progress (e.g. fixing a car that my son was using, loads of smaller things to fix) plus, in order to get at the car, there was a load of boxes of stuff on the roof and the wings. I've moved furniture around in the house, moved all the boxes into the house, and I'm just about to move all the seats out of the Daimler and into the house, then start to remove the side trim on the door pillars and roof. It's at that stage that I should be able to post useful pictures.

I suspect that the roof issue happened during a period from about 2001 to 2003 when the car was "stored" elsewhere (when I moved into the present house, the car went straight into the garage and stayed there, and I removed the head in 2004 and then stopped). Looking very closely at it now, I am amazed at the good condition of many parts, mostly because I was very careful how I had "cocooned" everything. The body doesn't look in good condition, but it is. The only concern is the "stretch" on the roof, but without having removed the headlining, I'm thinking that it's due to expansion of the wood. This probably started somewhere in the 2001-2003 period when it was out in heavy rain for a couple of months in the summer. That's when I think that the rain got under the gutter and into the wood above the gutter, probably sealing was totally dried out and no longer functional.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

After doing a lot of preparation before getting stuck into it, progress so far is pointing to a very good end result.

I managed to remove the headlining complete, in one piece, no rips or tears.

So far, on the driver's side, I have removed the rear quarter-light window, the gutter, both doors, and the centre (B) pillar. Then I have removed the wood along the inner roof edge.

Full write-up and quite a few pics to come.

2 pics as a taster

EDIT - 16/4/21 03:35 - picture update
Picture1.jpg
20210331_154032.jpg
Basically, the problem is not rain (well, it can be due to rain, but not on my grandfather's car). The problem is that, over time, the rear plywood section becomes brittle and weak, so when both doors are opened, they will move the top of the B pillar out very slightly each time.

Full deflection on this car is 0.15 inch on the driver's side, which closes the gutter width by that amount, because the gutter edge is 'rolled' so it cannot move out with the pillar. Result is a closing of the gutter width over the B pillar. Very little rust on the inside of the roof, or on the bolts and plate clamping the B pillar to the wood. But the plywood section is very brittle and crumbles easily.

Height of B pillar between bottom plate and top plate is 43 inches, so a deflection of 0.15 inch at the top represents an angle of movement of 0.2 degrees.

As I say, I'll write a lot more with more pics at a later date.

PS that gate is very large, height of pillar from base to top is 4 feet :o
Last edited by Brian-H on Wed May 12, 2021 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

This morning I had an idea to give a better perspective

EDIT - 16/4/21 03:35 - picture update
Picture1.jpg
20210401_120654.jpg
20210401_120703.jpg
I'll do the write-up in a few stages

1. headlining removal
2. rear quarter-light window removal
3. gutter removal
4. front piece removal (ash)
5. B pillar removal
6. rear piece removal (plywood)
7. several ideas for replacement/improvement

I should be able to start over the weekend.
Last edited by Brian-H on Thu May 06, 2021 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Headlining Removal #1

I've got too many pics of the headlining removal, so I've selected about 10. As there's a limit of 4 pics per post, that means 3 posts for the subject of headlining removal #1/#2/#3

I don't recall ever removing tacks from anything, certainly not in large numbers. The tacks are spaced about 1 inch apart, the main section of headlining is attached to 4 ribs each 4 ft long (that's 200 tacks) and also along each side down a length of 44 inches. In places (e.g. corners) there are double tacks, so getting on for 300 hundred tacks in total.

Removing the headlining was my biggest dread, as I didn't want to destroy it and didn't know if it's possible to remove so many tacks without ripping or tearing the cloth. I've found out that it is possible for a complete novice like me to remove it without ripping or tearing it - whether I reuse the cloth or not, at least I have it intact in one piece.

I did buy a tack removal tool - CS Osborne on ebay for about £8. There were Draper ones on ebay for half that price, slightly less price at Toolstation but the latter didn't have them and didn't know when they would have them again. The tack lifter is too big, I ended up using it to pull screws out on the gutter. The tool of choice was the white electronic side cutters which I've had for about 30 years. Most of the tacks were the small ones to the left in the pic below, near to the white side cutters.
DSCF2844.JPG
This is how I used them
DSCF2786_.JPG
Depending on access to the head of the tack, I could either grip the head, or use the side cutters like a tack remover from the top, or sometimes slide them under the cloth. Over 50% of the tacks came out very easily, 40% were slightly troublesome, and the rest were fiddly and stubborn but even those came out.

To begin with, you need to remove the trim pieces.
_trim.jpg
In the pic above
1. the white numbered circles refer to the ribs - see later
2. the light blue circles are for the 4 screws to remove the top piece of trim (behind which you'll find the tacks down the side
3. the dark red circles are for the screws to remove the trim round the window. There are 3 in the pic, 2 more out of shot along the bottom of the window. It might be possible to remove the main headlining without removing this trim, but since I needed to remove the window (so that I could remove the gutter later), I removed this trim piece anyway.
4. the yellow circle is the top of 3 screws which hold the trim onto the centre pillar.

About 30 years ago I had removed all the trim round the front windscreen and never put it back, so I can't say whether you'd need to remove that too - probably yes. You also need to remove the panel between rib 1 and the windscreen, I'd never removed this, but it comes out easily. You have to remove the sun visors (3 screws each) and then you can pull the panel down a bit along the windscreen edge, get a small pair of pliers in one hand, slide your hand in at the same time as feeling for the clips, then use the pliers to release the clips. 5 clips in all. Pic shows underside of panel with the metal brackets they go into - these are screwed into rib 1 and you can remove them once the panel is out.
DSCF2840.JPG

I removed all the seating and put it all at one end in the lounge. 20 years ago I'd also removed the arm rests (held on by 3 screws from the wheel arch into the arm rest wood, 1 slightly hidden screw down in the arm rest's side corner) so they came out again very easily and into the lounge.

At the same time 20 years ago I'd also removed the driver's side top side trim, which also came out again quite easily. But the 4 screws on the passenger side top trim had never been removed - and they refused to budge. In preparation for this sort of eventuality, I'd also bought a small hand held battery-powered "mini drill", the chuck on this can hold 1mm bits. Using that drill and 1mm bit, I drilled a 5-pointed array round the first screw, each hole angle to the screw tip. But that didn't work, upped it to 1.5, then 2, then finally 2.5 mm - that worked on 3 of the screws. But the last screw just would not budge, so I used the 2.5 mm bit all the way round the screw head, removed the trim, and removed the screw using mole grips on the screw head (it gave up and did unscrew).

The order in which I removed the tacks was - driver's side first, then along rib 5, then passenger side (realising too late that should have been done before rib 5), then rib 4, (rib 3 is bypassed, being held by the light), then rib 2, then realised that rib 1 should have been done beforehand.

So if I had to do another one, I'd remove rib 1 first, then down both sides, then rib 5, then rib 4, then rib 2 last.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Headlining Removal #2

Rib 5 is tricky at first, as the headlining is wrapped around a piece of plywood, which is then 'pinned' using the long pins on the right in the first pic in #1. However, you can carefully pull it away from one end, and then get a standard sized claw hammer behind it to pull it away, carefully working your way along (claw hammer not shown in next 2 pics).
DSCF2780.JPG
DSCF2782.JPG
This pic shows the headlining hanging down from rib 2
DSCF2790.JPG
The headlining is one piece of cloth, with two pleats in the cloth at positions for tacking onto ribs 2 and 4 (it's not tacked to rib 3 as the interior light holds the headlining up just behind rib 3).

I'm assuming that they secured it to the front of rib 1 first, then the back of rib 2, then the back of rib4, then the back of rib 5 using the pins and plywood piece, then down the sides.

Here is the roof with the headlining removed.
_ribs.jpg

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Headlining Removal #3

Finally, 2 pics of the headlining laid out on a sheet.

Front is to the left, with panel also shown. Different camera, different lighting, making it look brown in places
DSC_0221.JPG
Reverse side, again front is to the left, with panel also shown. Different camera, different lighting, making it look much greener than it is (the pleats are the correct green).
DSC_0225.JPG


NOTE - in Headlining Removal #1, I estimated the number of tacks at about 300 - but there were no tacks on the back of rib 5, only the pins and plywood secure the front headlining piece to the back of rib 5. On the front of rib 1, the headlining is glued with only a few tacks and the five metal brackets. So tacks on the back of ribs 2 and 4 = approx 100, then the tacks down both sides = approx 100 - approx 200 total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Rear Quarter-light Window Removal #1

If you need to renew the rubber seal round the outside of the window, this post describes how to remove the window only. To remove the gutter, the rubber seal has to come out, so the window has to be removed to remove the gutter.

I didn't take any pictures while removing the rear window on driver's side, and although the rear window on passenger side is still there, other than removal of trim pieces on passenger side to get to the headlining tacks along that side, I don't want to touch anything else along the passenger side side for the time being.

So I partially reconstructed the way the rear window sits in the curved plywood section, and in the horizontal ash piece, and in the vertical steel piece. Note that the ash piece (orange) is secured to the plywood section (purple) and steel piece (blue) and also the top of the aluminium section (yellow), while the end of the curved plywood section is secured at the back of the aluminium section where it runs over the wheel arch - see below.
0006.jpg

Pic below shows the partially reconstructed arrangement (as if looking from inside the car) without the aluminium section which is still in the car.
DSCF2894.JPG
To remove the window, you have to firstly take off
1. the vertical chrome piece which is screwed to the vertical steel piece (2 screws hold the "grab strap" which is not shown, plus 2 other screws) - this chrome piece is in the pic below.
2. the veneered pieces (2 screws on the top piece, which reveal 2 small screws on a bracket for the side piece) - both pieces in the pic below
3. the curved plywood trim piece lined with cloth (5 screws) - removed and out of view in the pic below
DSCF2896.JPG
This reveals 9 screws holding the window in place. Starting from the top, there are 5 screws holding it to the main curved plywood section. If you can't remove these, they'll probably just come away with the window because the plywood section has lost its integrity. There's also a very short curved piece of wood into which the 6th screw is screwed, but that short curved piece will just crumble away. Finally the last 3 screws are screwed into the ash, and are very difficult to remove - if you're lucky the heads snap off, otherwise you might have to drill the heads off.


When these 9 screws are dealt with, the window will pull/push into the car, either bringing the rubber seal with it, or leaving it behind as that is also secured to the wood with very small screws.
DSCF2898.JPG
Last edited by Brian-H on Thu May 06, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Rear Quarter-light Window Removal #2

Once the window is out, the vertical steel piece, which forms the upper part of the C pillar, can also be removed.

During the car body assembly, it seems that the short horizontal ash piece was screwed into the curved main plywood section before the steel bodywork went on i.e. the screws holding the ash to plywood are hidden at the back, so the plywood section and ash piece have to be removed as one. Although it might be possible to leave the vertical steel piece attached, I felt that it would be easier if the steel piece is removed, because the ash piece needs freedom to move, which it wouldn't have with the steel piece still attached. This turned out to be true later on, when manoeuvring the rear curved plywood section out with the ash piece still attached.

The vertical steel piece is held by 2 screws to the horizontal ash piece, and 2 screws up into the main plywood section. With these screws taken out, the steel piece can be removed (also shown is a short piece of wood which carries the veneered pieces and unscrews from the ash piece)
DSCF2900.JPG

Note that, where the gutter runs past the steel piece (gutter not shown) there are 2 other small screws which hold the gutter onto the steel piece at the top, and after 70 years those will not unscrew, so you can either snap the heads off if you're lucky (as in my case), or drill the heads off. If removing this steel piece, these other 2 gutter screws have to come out so that you can get behind the gutter, to the main 2 screws holding the top of the steel piece into the main plywood section. It is very fiddly but easier with the gutter partly out of the way - the gutter screws round the curved plywood section are likewise impossible to unscrew, however they either pull out (using the tack remover) or the heads just snap off.


Gutter removal will be next - probably the weekend.
Last edited by Brian-H on Thu May 06, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brian-H
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Re: Consort - family owned from new

Post by Brian-H »

Well only 24 hours later .....

Gutter Removal

As well as having to remove the rear window so that the rubber seal is out of the way, you also have to remove the seals on the car body for window sections of the doors. The vertical seals on the upper part of the B pillar can stay in place, as can the vertical seal on the steel piece that forms the upper part of the C pillar. But the horizontal seal for the top of the rear door, and the long seal for the top of the front door which continues halfway down the A pillar, both need to come out. Fortunately they used short stubby screws that didn't rust so, apart from a couple that are really stubborn, they all come out fairly easily (on these and other similar screws I used an impact driver without using a hammer, just pushing very hard whilst gripping the impact driver in both gloved hands and turning very slowly). Once the door seals are out, you'll see the underside of the wooden side sections and the screws into the ribs.

This picture below shows the front door area with the long door seal removed - wide angle lens exaggerates the curvature between ribs 1 and 2 (and also note the step and glue in rib 1, glue held the headlining, and step is for the front roof panel).
DSCF2800.JPG
If you look carefully you can see that the ribs sit in slots in the side piece (ash in these pics of the front section).

The pic below shows the slot better, taken with the gutter already removed, screw into the rib half out (shadow of the step in rib 1). You can also see a gap between the sealing strip and the roof lip.
DSCF2814.JPG
In order to show the way the roof and wood sections and gutter go together, I've created a garish diagram that looks like a cross between a weird vacuum cleaner and some dentist's attempt at something
gutter_2.jpg

The long grey screw holds the side section to the rib - when those are out, the side section will not slide out until all the gutter screws are out. The gutter screws are spaced approx 2½ inches apart - 24 into the plywood side section, 8 into the ash side section. There are also 12 other screws which run down the A pillar spaced 2 inches apart. The 24 + 8 gutter screws go through the gutter, through the seal strip, through the roof lip, and into the wood side section.

The heads of the 24 + 8 screws are almost impossible to get to, due to paint and their small slots (the 12 into the A pillar are different and easier). On the plywood side section (which runs from the B pillar to the back of the rear wheel arch), the 24 screws will just pull out using the tack lifter. Stick the tack lifter in between the gutter and roof lip, pull it down a bit, then remove the tack lifter and push the gutter back up, then the tack lifter can pull the screw out by its head. Quite often the heads just snap off. For the 8 screws in the front ash section (between top of A pillar and B pillar), the gutter screws into the ash behaved a lot more like screws, 4 did unscrew, 4 did not and their heads wouldn't snap off either. Instead the tack lifter ended up reducing the head diameter. I'm of the opinion that the plywood absorbs moisture, rusts the screws, locks some in, while the plywood itself just weakens. This can also start to rust the roof side from the inside, causing gaping holes, as seem on some Consorts for sale on ebay. I've no idea why this hasn't happened in the roof of my grandfather's car, maybe the amount of bitumastic paint on the inside of the roof varies from car to car.

Once you have the 24 + 8 gutter screws out, and the longer screws into the ribs out, then the side pieces will slide out. I also removed the 12 screws into the A pillar and then cut the gutter off, in one piece, at the front and at the back. The main reason for this was because, without the screws holding it in place, it was just flapping about and I wanted to preserve it, see pic below
gutter_3.jpg
The gutter is about 6½ feet long in the picture. "A" marks the position of the end of the A pillar. "B" marks the position of the top of the B pillar. "C" marks the position of the top of the C pillar. The red oval highlights the only section of gutter that had rusted and came away - same thing has happened at the same location on the bottom of the roof lip - both due to deterioration of the seal strip at that location.

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