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starter pinion tooth count

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daimlersteve
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starter pinion tooth count

Post by daimlersteve »

my SP has 11, a new starter supplied by David Manners has 10 . What gives ? no specs given in the parts manual .
regards Steve

SPortsman
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Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by SPortsman »

I believe the starter pinion for a manual transmission SP 250 has 11 teeth. That for a car with automatic transmission has 10 teeth.

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RadfordJim
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Location: Coventry

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by RadfordJim »

The old starter on my SP had 10 teeth, but the part number lists it as from an Austin Westminster!

The new WOSP high torque pre-engaged starter has 11 teeth.
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20200728_195645.jpg
Jim in Coventry - Home of the Daimler

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faeton
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Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by faeton »

I have picked up several of these starters for peanuts at auto jumbles , they were fitted to a lot of vehicles in the 50s and 60s , Land Rovers , Jags , Healeys etc , the difference are the no of teeth on the bendix , which is easy to change , there are also two methods of securing the bendix , the early ones use a castle headed nut and split pin , later models have a ring type circlip these need a special compressor to remove although I have removed without its not easy .

Dave

NevilleW
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:54 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by NevilleW »

RadfordJim wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:51 pm The old starter on my SP had 10 teeth, but the part number lists it as from an Austin Westminster!

The new WOSP high torque pre-engaged starter has 11 teeth.
Steve posted the question for me as have only just rejoined forum after getting another SP after having one years ago. ( I thought I had got them out of my system :cry: )

This is strange. The one I have just received from JAgSpares has 10 teeth and has same part number and I am currently querying them about this.
Images attached

Pinion of my original SP starter is 39 OD 11 teeth (Steve has measured same on his collection of starters)
Wosp Starter 39 OD 10 teeth
My engineering involvement with gears tells me that the teeth will not mesh correctly and probably end up damaging the ring gear.

The initial reply I have from Jag Spares is
"Thank you for the photos which confirm LMS257 is correct for the Daimler V8 Manual.
I have spoken to the supplier who is always most helpful and knowledgeable about these things,
The 10 tooth starter you have will fit and is interchangeable the pitch of the gear is correct, the original starters
Apparently were 10 tooth, however over the years people have fitted what was available that would do the job.
He is confident when fitted it will wok correctly, should you come across any issues he can organise sending an 11 tooth pinion (however he does not expect you to have an issue fitting the starter you have)"


This does not fill me with alot of confidence as reply references Daimler V8 Manual - which to me means Mk2 Saloon manual, NOT SP250.
Has anyone fitted LMS257 Wosp Starter to an SP?
Does it sound OK or is it noisy - which to me means tooth mesh is bad
Attachments
label side
label side
view on end pinioin
view on end pinioin
Last edited by NevilleW on Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RadfordJim
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Location: Coventry

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by RadfordJim »

Hi Neville
I haven't got an end view of my Wosp starter but looking at yours, I guess mine may have only 10 teeth. I estimated 11 from my photos :oops:
As it's installed now I can't say for certain but I can confirm it works perfectly. I've wired mine as pre-engaged.
I found fitting the top bolt a little awkward and was worried the solenoid was very near the exhaust. I tried rotating the end plate but that didn't work so I've wrapped the manifold and flexi pipe.
20200804_122846.jpg
Jim
Jim in Coventry - Home of the Daimler

NevilleW
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:54 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by NevilleW »

RadfordJim wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:31 am Hi Neville
I haven't got an end view of my Wosp starter but looking at yours, I guess mine may have only 10 teeth. I estimated 11 from my photos :oops:
As it's installed now I can't say for certain but I can confirm it works perfectly. I've wired mine as pre-engaged.
I found fitting the top bolt a little awkward and was worried the solenoid was very near the exhaust. I tried rotating the end plate but that didn't work so I've wrapped the manifold and flexi pipe. 20200804_122846.jpg

Jim
Hi Jim,
I've yet to fit mine. Looking at your picture, maybe you could clock the solenoid away from centreline of car so it is almost 90 deg off vertical ?? Does yours have all the extra holes in flange for doing this as mine has? If not you can easily get a new pair of holes machine in at your desired angle.
I've just trail fitted mine and it appears as though that there is plenty of room moving away from from motor.
As an engineer, I'm even having trouble understanding how it can be that with 1 less tooth but having same OD how can the teeth engage correctly. The only thing I can think of is the teeth are smaller (ie thinner) across (flank to flank) on the Pitch circle (ie driving diameter) and must have a looser fit between the flywheel teeth which is not ideal.
I'm going to ask WOSP tech to explain this to me for my own piece of mind.

bobtills
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:05 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by bobtills »

I believe the starter pinion for a manual transmission SP 250 has 11 teeth. That for a car with automatic transmission has 10 teeth.

Have you investigated this?

peterbee
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:37 pm
Location: Dunfermline Scotland

Re: starter pinion tooth count

Post by peterbee »

I have an SP250. The spare parts catalogue gives the starter motor as a Lucas M418G - 25533D. My spare starter is a 25533D. The pinion has eleven teeth.

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