lost book of production Darts

[David S]

The first book of production details of Daimler SP250's is saldy lost, gone forever we think. So, I wonder if there is enough information among our Forum readers to fill in some gaps and to put some real information into the knowledge vacuum.
There were scuttle changes to early car's bodies and no one seems to know at which chassis number [or body number] Daimler implemented these changes.
To start with, the very earliest cars had scallops behind their door handles, my car's body number is 737-0062 and it has these scallops, so who has the first car without them?
And the reinforced bonnet and boot lid; under the earliest car's bonnet/boot lid is a diagonal stiffening framework ..... I wonder if that changed at the same time?
Thirdly, the oil pressure gauge read 0-60psi on 'early' cars, but when did they change it to 0-100psi?
And lastly [for now] is the design of the 'B post'. The earliset cars are different in a way that is hard to explain, but owners know the difference!
The changes form A to B Spec is well documented in the 2nd production book, so I am only asking about reasonably early A spec cars.

I think it would be interesting to know more of these body design tweaks and try to find exactly chassis number-wise when Daimler implemented them, and if they all implemented at the same time [chassis number].

Go and have a look at your 'A Spec' car if you have one! I am sure we can narrow it down and find when things changed!

[#100910]

The DLOC-Australia site has been recording some of this information:

http://www.dlocaustralia.org/registers/ ... -archives/

Could this forum similarly create a page for each chassis number?
And a page listing all chassis numbers with a Yes/No check box next to each of the differences?

Adding to the list of differences:
The rubber flaps covering the suspension towers in the engine compartment.
(Or were those part of the 'B Spec' changes?)

[John-B]

It's a pity that Laurence Jones doesn't post here; he answered a lot of the questions about differences between A, B & C specifications on the old forum. Generalising, he said that there wasn't a single date when specs changed.

I would certainly like to find out where my car's original engine is now - nr. 89089 - so perhaps as a first solution all members should add their body, chassis and engine numbers into their profile.

PasSPort, the booklet showing SP250 owners, only shows chassis numbers. Perhaps Barry Thorne or Glyn Overy should consider adding body and engine numbers in PasSPort.

My car, chassis 100587, body 737 0063 and current engine nr. 7A8120, original nr. 89089, has scallops, bonnet stiffening, recently added B posts and 0 - 60psi oil pressure gauge. David S, your body number is just 1 ahead of mine, but your chassis nr. 104007 is much later than mine! Is that a C spec chassis with an A spec body?

[JT7196]

Hi John, interesting to hear that Sp250 Engine No's have not been recorded, I as a matter of course, always ask for:-
Date of 1St registration,
Chassis No.
Engine No,
Body Manufacturer,
Body Colour/s
Interior colour.
And of course Owners contact details

The hard bit is keeping track of the cars as and when they change hands !!

Cheers A'l

[David S]

Well, it isn't for me to ask even more form Laurence and Glyn; I feel they already do an awful lot for us and I am very grateful for that.
The idea of putting colour, body & engine numbers into our profiles is good but we need to spread the word far and wide!

But what about the differences? Does anyone here have a car with a body made about 100 chassis numbers after mine and John B's, say between chassis 100650 & 100700, do you have these features or were they gone by then?

John B,
My car has been re-bodied at some time in the past. it was originally sold in Jersey in 1962 and re-imported to UK in '66, it got re-registered as Jersey numbers are not used in England.
Interestingly your car's numbers suggest my car's present body may have originally been fitted to chassis No. 100586. Wonder where that is? the scrap yard in the sky I think!

[John-B]

Hi John, interesting to hear that Sp250 Engine No's have not been recorded,

They are requested on the SP250 registration form, but not published in PasSPort, so Laurence Jones has the records and can be asked.

Items requested are: Registration nr., A, B or C spec., chassis, engine, body & gearbox numbers, colour of body and trim, modifications and condition of body & trim, date of original registration, date purchased.

[David S]

Well OK John, I understand that and feel colour in particular would be a useful extra bit iof info for the pasSPort. But, to put all this into our hands represents a mountain of work for them and if we can find the change-over times/numbers for these features it would be helping them instead of making more work.

So here are some of the early mods that Daimler made, I think they were in the lost 1st production book:
[*]Scallops behind the door handles
[*]Reinforced bonnet and boot lid
[*]Oil pressure gauge read 0-60psi or 0-100psi
[*]The design of the 'B post'
[*]The rubber flaps covering the suspension towers in the engine compartment
I've looked at the site Greg pointed out and it seems 100745 does not have door handle scallops, but the photo on the Aussie website isn't that clear. So, it seems some of these changes happened after John's chassis, 100587, but how long after?

Greg, Thanks for the link, it is very interesting, I would like to put mine on there but it appears to be members only. But please tell us about how your car fits into all this.

David

[John-B]

Well OK John, I understand that and feel coulur in particular would be a useful extra bit iof info for the pasSPort. But, to put all this into our hands represents a mountain of work for them and if we can find the change-over times/numbers for these features it would be helping them instead of making more work.

I wasn't suggesting that all the info was put in PasSPort, I was answering Al's comment because a lot of info is already in the hands of the Registrars, if members filled in all the data.

I think it would be useful if PasSPort included the body number, engine number and colour as well as the chassis number. Perhaps we should then contribute towards the publication, or it could be put online somewhere.

[Warsash 2]

Hi
When I ran the Clubs stand at the NEC we use to have a number of ex Daimler and Jaguar employees come to the stand and talk of the practice at the factory in the 1950's, 60's & 70's. These were the days before just in time parts delivery. They told us of the time when Daimler was on it's uppers and at times the parts suppliers failed to supply parts. At such times they went to Halford and other motor factors for parts that would do the job rather than that specified. Also the SP was released before it was really ready and modifications started almost immediately but the parts where used up before the new ones were used. The parts made by Daimler usually being the ones that were in greater supply. So they said that it would not be possible to put a specific date or chassis number on when major upgrades took place as it was usually over weeks as supplies ran down. This method of updates continued when Jaguar took over. This they claimed was the reason why the 2.5l V8 to the V8 250 upgrade is blurred. What appear to be 2.5l cars can have things like manual gearbox which technically was only available for the 250. Some of the internal fittings also pass between the models.
This makes the dating particularly model upgrades difficult if not impossible.
Water is further mudded by owners who have upgraded their cars through desire or availability with parts. With the age of the cars which may have passed through a number of hands dating by parts fitted is not an exact science.
Margaret's car has a number of mods both mechanical and cosmetic from various stages in the SP evolution. Which she is happy with, but was does irk us is when club experts seem to think that mission in life is to point them out to us.

Margaret's car went into the factory as a Daimler and was released when Jaguar owned the marque.
Regards


Colin

[Christopher Storey]

What appear to be 2.5l cars can have things like manual gearbox which technically was only available for the 250. Some of the internal fittings also pass between the models.

Colin

Indeed : I have one of the handful of 2.5 cars with a Manual OD gearbox : 1 A 13111DN