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CONQUEST BRAKES

ROSS70JEN
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: LOOE CORNWALL

CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by ROSS70JEN »

HI AS YOU ALL MAY KNOW MY BRAKES ON A DJ252 ARE POOR.
When backing out of the workshop even on a low tick over I have to put a very great force on the foot pedal to stop the car.
How ever I tried the hand brake to day and the car stopped dead.
So have I got some of the trunnion settings or the link from the pedal to master cyclinder wrong?
What do you recommend to adjust and witch way to adjust a link?
All settings and parts on the front brakes are new the back have been looked at and adjusted at the wheels and are ok.
Help please Bryan

Brian-H
Very Wise Man
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Location: UK

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Brian-H »

It's possible that the rear brakes are not being pulled on via the foot pedal. As you probably know, the front are hydraulic and the rear are pulled on by a rod.
When you put your foot on the brake pedal, the master cylinder is pulled forward, and the "piston" inside should force fluid out to the front brakes, whilst also pulling on the rod to the back brakes. There is an adjustment on the rod that allows you to balance the front and back, it might be that it's too slack, thus not exerting full pressure to the front brakes and not bringing on the rear brakes at all. Note that the hand brake pulls the rod independently.

ROSS70JEN
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: LOOE CORNWALL

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by ROSS70JEN »

hi Brian-H
Yes I understand I thinks that is what is happing.
But which rod do I shorten I think it might be the rod between the brake pedal an the master cyclinder item 29 section L page 2 in the service
book? Do you agree ? The gaps on the front idler lever are about wright.
Thanks Bryan

Brian-H
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Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Brian-H »

Although it's not the one I was thinking of, that's also a possibility. It depends on how far the travel is on the brake pedal, if the travel is very long and the brakes only seem to come on near the end of travel, yes try that one.

The section that I was thinking of is item 43 on page L2. On page L4, item 107 (plunger) provides the pressure out to the front brakes, 107 is held back by item 108 which attaches to item 35 on page L2, which then drags rod 37/43 forwards. There has to be a "balance" such that, as the master cylinder moves forward, the resistance from the rear brakes is correct, so as to pull on the rear brakes while at the same time forcing fluid from the master cylinder to the front brakes.

Assuming that the brake pedal travel is correct, you need to check which is coming on first, front or rear. You'd need to jack up the front and have an assistant try to rotate the front wheels while you slowly push the brake pedal down and see when/if the wheels become impossible to rotate, then do the same on the rear wheels. If the fronts work but the rears don't, then the adjustment required is in rod 37/43, IIRC 43 is the one that has the adjustment.

ROSS70JEN
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: LOOE CORNWALL

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by ROSS70JEN »

HI Brian-H
Many thanks I will get a friend to help this month and test as you say.
For your notes the brake peddle does not go down much less than my DJ260 but when its down its all most like hitting a stop.
Thanks again if you get any more ideas after reading this I would be pleased to hear from you.
Best regards Bryan

ROSS70JEN
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: LOOE CORNWALL

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by ROSS70JEN »

HI Brian-H
Many thanks I will get a friend to help this month and test as you say.
For your notes the brake peddle does not go down much less than my DJ260 but when its down its all most like hitting a stop.
Thanks again if you get any more ideas after reading this I would be pleased to hear from you.
Best regards Bryan

Brian-H
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Location: UK

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Brian-H »

That suggests it's pulling on the rear brakes too soon and not the front brakes at all, but you say that the hand brake stops the car dead, so it can't be that.

I'd have a look at the master cylinder and see if something is stopping it. If you're feeling up for it you can remove the front seats and take up the front floorboard and then press the brake pedal and observe what's happening to the master cylinder. The alternative is to get an assistant to press the brake pedal slowly while you look underneath at the master cylinder, or vice versa.

Stan Thomas
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Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Stan Thomas »

Hi Bryan,

I'm afraid you are going in the wrong direction - as there is no front-to-rear "brake balancing" as such to adjust.

How it works is this:
The master cylinder "floats" - the body of which is connected to the brake pull-rod and the piston inside the master cylinder is connected to the rear brake pull rod via an idler lever. When you brake, the master cylinder moves forward, pressurising the brake fluid to apply the front brakes which in turn continues the brake application to apply the rear brakes. No "balancing act" occurs or is provided for.

If the front brakes hydraulics fail, the master cylinder travels further until the piston bottoms out and then applies the rear brakes only. If the rear brakes fail (say a broken operating rod) the master cylinder idler lever hits a stop on the chassis, thus pressurising the hydraulic fluid to apply the front brakes only.

Given you say you have a very good handbrake signifies nothing wrong with your rear brake rod settings - so your problem is dead easy to cure.

Get someone to apply the brakes whilst you look at the brake mechanism underneath and you will see the master cylinder move forward pulling on the idler lever - which is moving too far until it is then touching the stop on the chassis before applying full application of the rear brakes.

Just a simple adjustment to put right.

Make sure however your rear brakes are fully adjusted up to minimise the amount of movement in the rear brake rods.

Any problems and I'll talk you through it on the 'phone.

Brian-H
Very Wise Man
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Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Brian-H »

Stan Thomas wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:16 pm I'm afraid you are going in the wrong direction - as there is no front-to-rear "brake balancing" as such to adjust.
if you have a look at the diagram on page L2 of the manual, item 43 is there to adjust the length of the rod thereby "balancing" the brake effort between front and rear. This has to be there due to tolerances etc.

However, I do agree that there's something else stopping the master cylinder's travel - it could be several things including what you suggest. Other than that your description coincides with mine n'est pas ? (and Bryan's not going in the wrong direction as his update in #5 suggests something else to which my reply to that does not point in the wrong direction - it is all in English and each post needs to be taken in context).

If you want o speak on the phone that's a good idea, but it would be useful if afterwards we learn what the outcome was to help other forum readers e.g. https://forum.dloc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=32431#p32431

Stan Thomas
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:14 pm
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Re: CONQUEST BRAKES

Post by Stan Thomas »

The reason I offer to discuss a problem directly with someone - especially something as critical as brakes - is that it is sometimes too complex and time-consuming to give lengthy written explanation on our Forum - notwithstanding it takes into consideration the specific comprehension of the recipient to ensure he really understands what to do.

It also avoids well-meaning but nevertheless misleading posts from those who in reality don't know what they are talking about.

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