Dear All,
In the way of all old cars, for no reason my 1938 LA 11 started to run roughly, run very roughly and then fell silent. Fuel OK, spark OK so out with the compression tester and the problem was localised at No 3 and No 4 cylinders. Off came the cylinder head and, yes, we need to change the head gasket. Then we noticed that water was oozing from the block and we realised that the core plugs had gone porous and a slightly deeper bout of maintenance was required. No problem, that is why I bought a classic car, I actually enjoy this type of challenge.
Then we inspected the cylinder head which looks not too bad - no visible distortion - to be confirmed on Monday. BUT if you look at the photograph WOOD attached, you will see that someone has carefully fitted wooden blocks in the cylinder head water channels. Three were in place, the fourth had fragmented and we found it throughout the engine water system.
Deeply suspicious by now, we looked at everything we had taken off and if you look at the photograph SPRINGS attached, you will see an unlikely use of locking wire in an engine. I have the feeling I was quite lucky that nothing more serious had happened as a result. The pistons and bores and valves look in suprisingly good condition for 81 years and 55K miles.
We have also found that metric nuts had been forced onto several of the studs (I won't go on but there are many bodges that we are now undoing)
I cannot think why one would fit wood and locking wire but has any member heard of these remedies as a "get you home" measure?
I would also be grateful to know if the small steel clips above the valve collets are a standard part and, if yes, where can I get some.
Last and most important, in case he is reading this post, I absolutely absolve the immediately previous owner from any part in this saga, these are really long standing issues. I have no real complaints as we can fix all these points but I just have a feeling of wonderment that individuals could bodge such a lovely car in this cavalier manner.
Best Regards
Simon Rooms
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LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
Re: LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
The clips at the top of the valves are to stop the valve from falling into the engine if you want to replace a valve spring without removing the head. The clip stops it from falling down the guide when the collets are taken out using the original valve spring compressor supplied new with the car. I would have thought they could be made by cutting a coil off an appropriately sized spring.
Re: LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
Yes Simon, exactly what I did, and it works very well
Cheers Al
Cheers Al
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Re: LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
Dear Simon and AL,
Thank you for the feedback. I do not have an original toolkit and didn't realise that such a special tool existed. I am more relaxed about the clips now but the locking wire worries me as some of it is missing and it must have gone through the engine - but there is no obvious damage.
Best Regards
Simon
Thank you for the feedback. I do not have an original toolkit and didn't realise that such a special tool existed. I am more relaxed about the clips now but the locking wire worries me as some of it is missing and it must have gone through the engine - but there is no obvious damage.
Best Regards
Simon
Re: LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
I have been thinking about the pieces of wood in your cylinder head. My guess, and that's all it can be, is that they have been placed in the waterways to try and improve the circulation of the coolant. A problem with quite a number of pre war engine designs is how to make the water circulate round the engine efficiently, particularly round cylinders 3 and 4, or 5 and 6, depending on the number of cylinders.
A water pump at the front of the engine doesn't necessarily help the situation as it just pushes the water round the path of least resistance more effectively, leaving the passages further away with the same lack of flow. If the radiator is effective then the overall coolant temperature will drop but it's the problem of trying to reduce the areas of the engine which are running quite a bit hotter than everywhere else that is difficult to overcome.
Why does any smallish cylinder head, or block, need skimming due to distortion ? It can only really be because there has been localised overheating. If the heat in the block and the head were uniform in the whole unit, it should expand and contract at the same rate and for the minimal mileages some of these engines have done, the effect on the castings should be minimal. A good example of what is possible in the other direction are Austin's 1920s engines, capable of very high mileages and which suffer (or benefit) from almost continual over cooling.
I think the wood has been placed in the waterways to try and stop the coolant from just circulating round the cylinder head by making the path through the block an easier one. An interesting experiment to carry out is, with the aid of a no contact digital thermometer, run the engine to normal temperature and measure the external temperature of the engine at each cylinder, head and block. This will give a fair idea of what the coolant is doing throughout the engine.
A water pump at the front of the engine doesn't necessarily help the situation as it just pushes the water round the path of least resistance more effectively, leaving the passages further away with the same lack of flow. If the radiator is effective then the overall coolant temperature will drop but it's the problem of trying to reduce the areas of the engine which are running quite a bit hotter than everywhere else that is difficult to overcome.
Why does any smallish cylinder head, or block, need skimming due to distortion ? It can only really be because there has been localised overheating. If the heat in the block and the head were uniform in the whole unit, it should expand and contract at the same rate and for the minimal mileages some of these engines have done, the effect on the castings should be minimal. A good example of what is possible in the other direction are Austin's 1920s engines, capable of very high mileages and which suffer (or benefit) from almost continual over cooling.
I think the wood has been placed in the waterways to try and stop the coolant from just circulating round the cylinder head by making the path through the block an easier one. An interesting experiment to carry out is, with the aid of a no contact digital thermometer, run the engine to normal temperature and measure the external temperature of the engine at each cylinder, head and block. This will give a fair idea of what the coolant is doing throughout the engine.
Re: LA 11 ENGINE SUPRISES!
There was a new head gasket introduced very early in production for the Lanchester 15/18 and 18 which closed some waterways in an effort to improve cooling to the back of the engine. I also wonder if this Heath Robinson intervention sought to correct overheating. All the best, Ranald